A thought on Rick Rubin

The Lounge General Discussion
#1

I’ve always had a lot of respect for what Rick Rubin does and has achieved. I’ve been enjoying his recent interviews about the creative process and his general perspectives. I recently watched the video below and there were a couple statements in the intro that really rubbed me the wrong way.

Basically his premise is that if you are in a career you aren’t passionate you should just jump into another career. If you don’t like aspects of where your life is at you should just move across the world to a beach somewhere. You just have to be “brave”.

Countless people have been “brave” particularly in creative fields and it didn’t work out for them. Most people who it does work out for had some pretty big safety nets that allowed them to keep pushing in that direction. I think Rick is an excellent incredibly talented and driven person but I also think he was the right person, in the right place, at the right time.

I just thought that this particular thought and sentiment is cheap “self improvement” guidance that doesn’t reflect most people’s reality and that Rick, as talented as he is, was also fortunate that things aligned the way they did.

Perhaps I’m wrong and cynical but that’s my vent. What do you think?

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#2

I have to agree that that kind of glib ‘follow your dream’ stuff can be quite galling.

It’s basically only applicable to 2 categories of people:
those with no responsibilities or dependents (or no conscience)

the highly privileged who can afford park the harsh realities of life as faced by the rest of us.

It can show a lack of self-awareness from those preaching the path to happiness.

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#3

It’s the sentiment of someone who has had an easy ride, with lots of social and financial mobility. He lives in a different world. The fact is that if you’re struggling to eat, being ‘brave’ just means your kids starve because mummy/daddy wants to be a musician. It’s inherently selfish and requires a huge amount of privilege that many people simply don’t have. It’s like one or two small steps removed from right-wing nuts telling disabled people to pull themselved up by their bootstraps and get to work. Like stop complaining about being a bipolar paraplegic and go become a self-made millionnaire! Look at me, I did it! I just worked super-duper hard and was appropriately compensated with 1000x the average salary!

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#5

Considering the number of recent public appearances and video interviews (compared to the past, at least… he’s always been a behind the scenes kind of guy…), it looks like he’s going after the Internet guru status…

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#6

I don’t know what to say about rick rubin anymore. I mean you don’t just wake up one morning and accidentally produce some of everybodys favorite albums across so many genres without some kind of insight into at least music if not the human mind and your own direction in life. Anyone who has handed music to a “professional” to pay for it to be polished and then felt it sounded worse when they got it back can attest that there is a level of decision making and experience that goes beyond technical skills and heavy equipment which results in making music sound great. I don’t necessarily think his career could be called an accident and the only right place at the right time was that people in the same scene as he was were doing fundamentally incredible things that would change what we now know as classic hip hop music. I feel like I can’t give him zero credit but I think that his lifestyle has created a detachment from the conditions which brought him into his lifestyle, if that makes sense. I don’t want to defend him as a person or a creator too much or too little because I’ve been listening to music he banged out my entire life and literally I can list so many epic projects he has been involved with, not all of that is luck of the draw.

However, after covering those bases, all I can say is you aren’t wrong.

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#7

I noticed a lot that people who were always well off can’t even do the simple math that zero on a bank account doesn’t mean you can buy something expensive. Even people who studied math.

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#8

there’s some truth to almost everything if you look hard enough.

FWIW I have advised to young people to try as hard and as long as possible to get into the industry they want to, but the realities is that for most young people that window is shorter and shorter than ever before.

I’m personally glad that I bummed around long enough in my 20s to end up on a career path that I can live with. I was determined to never take a position in any field I didn’t want to work in that was likely to pay me enough to make it hard to walk away from.
I was able to do that for a number of years through a combination of slacker graft and blind luck, and having no responsibilities other than for my own arse.

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#9

I’m always very sceptical of the “Just follow your dreams” advice

A lot of the people I know studied Art / Music because of that and ended up in a lot of student debt, but couldn’t get a job at the end of it and a lot of the professional musicians I know end up doing things like working on cruise ships and playing cocktail piano, teaching kids etc to make ends meet which they don’t enjoy.
They also typically work unsociable hours etc.

It’s great for the 1/1,000,000 Rick Rubins of the world who become massively wealthy, but the number of 40+ year olds I know who just scrape a living taking anything that comes their way with no house and no pension etc makes me very glad I didn’t follow my dreams and I only do music as a hobby.

I always recommend this as the “Don’t follow your dreams book”: So Good They Can’t Ignore You: Why Skills Trump Passion in the Quest for Work You Love - Cal Newport

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#10

Pursuing your dreams is one thing but having the talent to achieve is another thing. Be confident and push to achieve your potential but also understand your limitations.

I walked out of a job I hated and swore to go follow my passions which I did but I had zero responsibilities at that age and the luxury to do so.

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#11

He’s got a book out.

think this might not be completely unrelated.

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#12

notice that the generation told to follow their dreams and that anyone can be president etc, is now also the most psychiatrically medicated.

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#13

but then another way to look at that is just that your dreams included financial security and music as a hobby. As long as you are happy, cool.

some people’s “Mmmm” is different and they’re happy not having financial security as long as they’re still making music full time.

Totally agree it comes off as a bit glib when you are Rick Rubin and are amongst the very few people unlikely to have any worries when it comes to getting work…

Then again, I doubt his success is just down to luck, or talent. He’s not wrong per se that no-one is coming to change your life for you.

Worth mentioning that “being a bit spiritually switched on” is basically what he DOES as a producer by most accounts. Don’t think he’s doing the engineering or anything.
But his world view is probably a BIT clouded by spending a lot of his time with people that are really talented, pretty rich and very driven.

So yeah, pinch of salt… but it’s not like he’s a nepo-baby. Getting people’s talent out of them by creating “good vibes” is pretty much the thing he does.

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#14

I’ve worked in and around music, TV and radio at various times and a very high percentage of people either have very wealthy parents or partners bankrolling them, or are stuck in something they want to get out of, but don’t have the skills to do something else.

I think there are certain people who are truly compelled to give their life to it and if that means having to work 2x as hard as most people for 1/2 the money then they are happy with that trade off, but a lot of people end up regretting it.

As someone said to me when talking about books by people who are massively successful “Ask any russian roulette player and they will tell you they’ve never lost”

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#15

I never grew up around enough money that I could be “brave”.

Most of my musical endeavours have been a result of us accruing enough wealth from our day jobs that it became a realistic hobby some time in my mid-30s.

Me and my wife started out poor. Like bailiffs at the door, no heating poor. But through a mixture of luck, hard work and my wife’s keen ability to boss people around, we’re rich enough that my kids can be as brave as they like.

But if I catch one of the little fuckers going round telling everyone it’s easy/all they have to do is follow their dreams and be brave I’ll wring their fucking neck.

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#16

funnily enough I called in on friend yesterday, and she got to talking about a re-union with some of her old university friends — and what a surprise! the only ones working in a creative field related to that which they studied are the two who had super rich parents.

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#17

As much as I’m suspicious of the “Just follow you dreams” advice, I would never advise anyone to stay in a job/career that they hate. It’ll eat away at your soul. God knows, I stayed in a career that damn near drove me to the brink… and all because of the money. It didn’t matter that I was good at it - I didn’t feel it.

I can’t say that what I do now - managing a bookshop - was my dream or my passion, but I love it and I think I’m quite good at it. Importantly, it hasn’t taken me away from the things I am passionate about.

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#18

I guess at one point (years of living a certain life) it becomes really difficult to put yourself in someone else‘ shoes and what one might say can sound pretty ridiculous from a different position…Maybe don‘t try to put out universal life advice at all?
On the other hand, I‘m sure people like him get asked all the time and there‘s an audience waiting for it…Idk…

#19

I think you can strike a balance.

It’s quite possible to find a job you like and pays well, but isn’t your dream job.

I’m an broadcast and software engineer and I’ve worked in TV, Radio and Music, but not on the creative side, but I do enjoy my job and get paid a decent amount.

If you just straight up hate your job you should totally quit, but maybe don’t try and be a record producer.

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#20

The pressure to “love what you do” can itself be a source of real unhappiness. Many of the people who advocate for it have themselves been quite lucky in their lives. They are often well-meaning, but are heavily biased by their own success. I tend to think of success as having three main parts:

  1. Dedication: the one thing that we mostly can actually control is the amount of effort we are willing to give
  2. Innate Talent: some creatives are simply endowed with natural ability that others don’t possess.
  3. Luck: the older I get, and the more the internet makes available to me obscure media, the more I realize that there are an astonishing number of incredible creatives making wonderful, top-level art, worthy of “making it” and yet who will never be able to pay rent through their craft.

Yes, the line can be fuzzy between dedication and talent, as work really get get you incredibly far. But even the most dedicated and talented artists also need a lucky break to get their start in the spotlight. Or that first amazing gig. Or whatever.

The vast majority of humans must toil at some kind of work, and it’s a rare gift to have the privilege to love it. It’s a bummer so many people are made to feel like a failure because they don’t spring out of bed each day to go to work. It’s a job. Most aren’t meant to be fun.

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#21

that’s kind of what I was alluding to earlier - for young people to be careful about taking a role in life that you don’t want, that is going to give you just enough ‘reward’ to trap you forever.

Whilst looking for graphic design work I did some tempting at a couple of big financial organisations.
Fortunately I was only interested in doing the bare minimum to avoid getting canned and earning enough to get pissed up all weekend.

For those showing even a modicum of graft there was a fast-track to being a team leader or some such bollocks—paying just enough to walk away from.

Terrifying to think I could still be there now. Driving a 5 Series.

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