€4k DA/AD converters these days!?

The Lounge Other Gear
1

hey,

So I think this has been discussed many times. but can someone who is really familiar with this say in short sentences what this is supposed to bring.

is it just stupid to spend so much money on a converter these days or what is this really about?

here is an example: Lynx Studio Aurora(n) 16 USB – Musikhaus Thomann

the koster so say and write about 4k. wouldn’t a simply “cheap” e.g. fucusrite offer the same thing with many inputs and outputs when it comes to pure AD/DA conversion? there are so many vs videos online and i hardly hear a significant difference. why does someone still spend so much money on something like this? maybe just too much money at the start and he feels so satisfied because he has an expensive brand? according to the motto look here my porsche i’m cool?

or am i just too stupid to understand it and this question comes up again every three years?

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https://www.analog.com/en/technical-articles/relationship-data-word-size-dynamic-range.html

3

I see it this way:

Do professional race car teams need to spend that much on an engine? Probably, because even the smallest inch will help them win. Does pharmabro in FL need it to drive around in traffic? No.

I think the market for these are professionals who need to ensure they are using the best; they are paid to do so. Us hobbyists don’t.

In addition, I wonder if this price is indicative of inflation/chip issues…

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4

so I don’t really know. today’s converters (no idea what they were like back then) are supposed to be really good. and when i play the rinrn synthesizer with its audio outputs via the cheap interface, i don’t hear the clear sound of the synthesizer or anything else at all, i.e. no smoking or outside interference. Now I just don’t understand what such a fancy 4k da/ad converter is supposed to do, regardless of whether I make money with it or not. for me it looks like a deduction on the street.

but as I said, technically I have no idea and therefore I take it back. I would like to understand this slowly. the above article seems to be lush in any case.

5

I have never worked with such a high end unit, but I trust professionals who’ve released incredible sounding work that the chose these types of kit for a reason other than bragging rights.

I’ve seen this (old) article shared sometimes as a light, layman’s read on differences in ad/da conversion:

https://www.soundonsound.com/reviews/3-stand-alone-d-converters-compared

6

you are absolutely right. it’s like art to drive a really intense mix that lets the sounds melt together with crystal clarity. but here i’m wondering if that doesn’t have more to do with the coloring devices and the understanding of technology and music? a transducer shouldn’t color, but rather reproduce the sound as it comes out of the instrument. I’m also pretty sure that a production that was made purely in the box sounds completely different than if it had been produced with analog equipment. whether it’s worse or better, that’s not the point. The nice thing about a DAW is - by the way - that EVERYONE can make music today, whether rich or poor, with everything they need if they want to. I think it’s great. but these expensive converters … I really don’t know. i think even an RME interface is too expensive, if we just start from the conversion. Here’s an example and I really don’t hear anything. :

7

Well RME’s worth is a lot in their rock-solid drivers and long-lasting build quality.

But this video is of mid-grade interfaces up against one another. I cant watch the video now, but my guess is there is not a huge difference. Then your room acoustics, playback equipment and YT compression come into play.

The interface you linked to, however, is the best of the best. For people with outrageous setups in acoustically pindrop perfect rooms getting paid to mix/master a bajillion track record recorded on SSL desks and Neumann mics…every bit of the signal chain is important.

8

maybe one day you’ll have the honor of being able to try out something like a Lynx to form your own opinion.

What I like about RME outside of the conversion is the included DIGICheck. However right now I’m using a used Behringer UMC through eBay and I absolutely love it :wink: Hopefully it’s not really true that they exploit people to make money, so I actually avoid those people.

9

i wouldn’t google that folks !

might be handy to put a £$€ before 4k as it’ll confuse folk otherwise

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10

Caught in 4k

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11

i might have to google that one though :sketchy: !?!

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12

Depends on the company but to me it’s all about the customer support and the drivers.

Lynx Studio I would put alongside RME as one of the companies who make excellent effort in this area.

I’ve had a lLynx Aurora 16 for 10 years and despite many computer and OS upgrades etc it continues to run rock solid reliable day in day out with very low latency.

I cannot say the same for the various cheap sound cards I’ve owned in the last 20 years.

About the sound - it is excellent, low noise floor, jitter etc. can I tell the difference… ? Never compared it directly, but as said above you are not only paying for sound quality!

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13

that’s interesting to hear from someone who actually has such a quality interface. so it’s a solid piece of hardware that’s built to last. I’ve never had an interface break and I think the UMC Behringer is very well built. So that would not be a reason for me to spend 4k. and if the sound quality, i.e. the conversion, is hardly relevant in contrast to today’s interfaces, well. I just read that the transients are played differently in such high-priced stories, but even here there are phase plugins that are great for shifting.

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Yeah I can count on my hands how many times my RME has crashed over the span of 8 years. It’s the OG Babyface and they’re still updating its drivers. Nuts.

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15

IMO, the main reason for having really high end converters these days are if you are working commercially with a wide range of clients/music.

If you’re an artist with your own setup, use whatever suits you and your music… no one in the history of buying music has ever bought it because of the AD/DA, or not bought it because of the AD/DA.

If you’re in a commercial setting, and you have to cater across the board, and work with dynamically wide music (classical, for example), the conversion is going to be noticed/heard.

If you’re making electronic music on a TR8S, couple of synths, some Elektron gear, etc, Focusrite level is going to work just fine.
Yes, you can get marginal ‘quality’ gains by spending more, but there are better places to put that money.

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16

Dieter says delete.

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17

great conversion is great and worth it if you can hear it. You will most definitely not hear it properly via a YouTube video, best to try out different devices in person.

you don’t need expensive conversion, the focusrites of this world do a very good job for most people. if you want the best dynamic range, resolution and clarity though, you’d start looking at better/specific converters. It’s a margin’s game, but to some these margins matter.

I’ll add that there’s little point in adding top notch conversion if the other elements in the chain won’t hold up, ie monitors, room treatment etc.

Lastly I’d say that high-level conversion is NOT a luxury product but rather a specialist’s tool, so the mark ups are not for vanity’s sake, they are priced at the margin as specialist tools so often are. pretty much no one but the most nerdy of us will walk into your studio and complement you on your Aurora…they are actually more likely not to notice it at all there…so signaling power is almost 0.

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18

I think the returns/gains above a certain level are small. Mostly you see tighter clocks, pro features, low noise/distortion, and better build qualities.

This is more for people who have $10,000 compressors and EQ’s, mastering studios for example.

You want to squeeze every bit of quality you can from your $100,000 studio. Weakest link as it were.

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19

Most converters these days are decent enough for most people, especially if you aren’t making money with your music/engineering. As others have said, it’s a case of 5-10% improvements most of the time. I’ve been using the Antelope Orion for the last decade or so for my main conversion to and from my mixer but for my mastering setup and main monitor DAC I have a Lavry blue system. I experienced a very noticeable improvement in the Orion when I clocked it from the Lavry. I think clocks are where the real improvements can still be made, considering most converters are using the same chips these days. Listen through this vid and see what a difference a high end clock can bring to medium level converters:

I’m toying with the idea that I can replace my RND MBP with the MBC as I really only use it for the limiting these days and have access to the stereo field stuff from my M/S equipped eq.

Edit: could be worse, here’s Lavry’s high end A/D and D/A…$16,600 before tax :cold_face:

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20

…the average converter quality got way better within the last few years…

the cheapest to find today, were pretty decent middleclass yesterday…
so, even homerecording foreva level focusrite can get u to a decent level nowadays…

as everywhere else, middle class is thinning out…leaning towards that new low end…

u must have good reasons to still invest in hi end converters…
if ur into recording heaps of accoustic fine print, u can hear every buck u invested into ur pre amps and converting end of ur production day…

if that’s not the case, all that money more invested won’t return…

hi end is really for hi end…once, if u heard truu good converters for the first time, after knowing only cheap ones before, it was like, someone has lifted a curtain in front of ur signals…but these days, such crappy converters are harder and harder to find, since they all come from pretty much the same production source…
while the truu hi end ones come from niche brands in small numbers…so, there, u pay not only for that little gap of only sometimes really needed xtra quality, but for the fact that they also have to make their profit cuts, which was and always will be harder to reach, if ur “only” selling little batches in first place…

so, ask urself…for what do u might really need that better groundnoise ratio and that slicker solid clocking…for the average line signal and some vocal micings…?..not really…
especially given the fact, that hi dynamic ranges are only common ground in movie/soundtrack mixing, while all the rest see no real need in truu dynamics anymore and do great with the leftovers by simply sidechaining the hell out of everything during a mixdown…

while on the other hand, for many whispering heights in all kinds of capturing truu dynamic accoustics…?..u better got that covered…but with greater power, comes greater responsebilty all the way through ur production habits…
if u go the xtra mile for hi end converters, u’ll also need the hi end speakers…which only make sense, once u work in an accousticly treated room while u better also kept an eye at the front end of ur chain…where are ur hi end microphones…?

the hi end route is also the hi end rabbit hole…and we’re all living in some kind of rabbit hole already, anyways…

and all that, for a vast majority of people listening to all ur efforts on their bluetooth ear buds and speakers via some streaming farm end of the day…?
or for that exclusive minority club of hifi enthusiasts, still spending their time in truuly listening to what u came up with in all it’s fragile details without hardly ever skipping…?
u must ask and can tell urself, only…

oh, and the last truu crappy converters i’m aware of are built into all that native instruments wannabee hardware…while once cheap as fuk focusrite doing pretty ok-ish actually…
if i had to pick a real world and best of both planets scenario, i’d choose a motu product…

while decent top notch is still to find in appogee, but only in naked converting, in preamping not that much…appollos still doing great all the way in and out…so does rme…antelope still trying their best and almost there but won’t make it, since that external xtra outboard dsp concept for exclusive modelled dynamic fx and amping external meets internal summing/mixing for low latency is not really needed anymore and outdated soonish …while realworld best bang for all the buck remains metric halo…

all above that, like ur mentioned lynx, do only justice in rarest cases and are simply too special for most hard life realities…

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