Tomorrow : Octatrack is back?

An MK2 model would risk alienating long-standing customers? That’s a bogus argument because it is simply not true! Apple is also a company that produces products that don’t diminish value by introducing an enhanced product. Look at all of the customers fighting to become the first new-model iPhone buyers. Look at the high second-hand price levels of older iPhone models as compared to second-hand older Android phones.

If Elektron would announce that “next quarter” (at any point in time) a new model would come out, of course demand for the old model would instantly drop without a serious lowering of pricing levels, because people would then postpone their buy. That’s why old-model cars for example are stuffed with free accessoires once a new forthcoming model is announced. And that’s why Elektron is smart enough not to advertize a forthcoming MK2-model of any sort in advance.

However, the OT has been out of stock for about a year now. Therefore not one single OT-buyer could have feel fooled by Elektron buying the old model (“MK1”) if today would be the release date of the MK2 model!

You’re not seriously suggesting that an MK2 model would righteously upset any Octatrack owner that bought an old model’s hardware over one to four years ago, are you???

I own several 27" iMacs, plus Thunderbolt Displays for the MacBook Pro. Last Friday Apple announced a brand new 27" Retina iMac at a 5k screen resolution having 77% more pixels than a UHDTV.
To me, that’s cool, I want one! But it sure doesn’t upset me because I own regular iMacs! And neither would an MK2 version of the Octatrack!

I bought an Octatrack in 2011 through retail. And I would immediately buy an MK2 version that supports Overbridge, even when Overbridge has not been released yet. If I wouldn’t have enough cash to own two Octatracks I’d sell the MK1 model at a reasonable price second-hand to free up funds for the MK2. And if I would have enough cash at hand, I’d still buy the MK2 and keep the MK1 because it would be useful as a live performance/DJ-tool , and I could always load a saved MK1-project into the MK2-device for bouncing down individual tracks on a DAW.[/quote]
Reading back through the threads, it can be seen there are plenty of people who cannot afford multiple musical instruments and computers like you and me who would be upset if a Mk2 Octatrack came out now. Not everyone, of course. But it’s a completely different market to that of personal and mobile computers: musical instruments are much more personal and have a longer lifespan.

We can look at the similarities and differences between Elektron and Apple. As you correctly pointed out, both companies add ongoing value to their products by releasing free software updates that can be installed on machines that are several years old. However, in hardware, Apple has revenues and resources that are literally orders of magnitudes greater than those of Elektron (which has, I think, about 20 people in total). Apple’s high market share in a mass-volume business and hefty resources mean that it can afford to produce upgraded hardware models each year in a way that Elektron simply can’t. That’s another reason why Elektron doesn’t make frequent incremental hardware upgrades of its instruments.

I understand that you would really like to have an Overbridge-capable OT Mk 2 right now but (to answer your earlier question to Elektron), given the reality of their situation and their company ethos, I think that doesn’t make it a reasonable project for Elektron to undertake and therefore it is not likely that we will see such a thing in the foreseeable future. Do you?

(Love your updated avatar, by the way!)

2 points here - you could sample a 303 note in ableton, load it into sampler and set the loop point to 1 sample in a matter of seconds. You could duplicate the channel 8 times and randomly stick notes in 8 midi clips in a few more seconds. Freeze all the channels at once, slice them all to drum racks etc - another 20 secs. Arguably way quicker than on an OT - however music is not a race.

2nd point - You can’t export all 8 tracks and hopefully you knew this before you spent £1000 on an OT. Electron never claimed it could do this, and you bought it in this knowledge. Rather than racing to get 8 distorted 303 lines running in a record time, why not focus on getting your OT tracks to the point where you are happy to bounce them down as 2 stereo pairs? Just a thought.

Personally I’m not really interested to use Overbridge on A4 & AR and don’t like that Elektron is spending time with all that effort for Overbridge! Otherwise we could have the ring modulator machines right now in the Rytm…

But the fact is that Elektron is working now on Overbridge… Doing so, make this protocol future proof and do it right, so with an upgrade path for the Octatrack! Just like Elektron did in the past with Machinedrum SPS-1 to SPS-1UW Upgrade or the +Drive upgrade!

Quote Elektron:

"Among friends

Being an Elektron user means being cared for. Enjoy continuous OS updates, premium customer support and the vibrant Elektronauts community. An Elektron machine is just the beginning."

Excellent that a Elektron user gets free OS updates! That’s the nice thing about soft(ware), because it’s so soft! But now we see hardware limitations on the OT for the quite potential Overbridge feature! So now there quite a lot of Elektron users (including me because of the digital nature) who are willing to pay for a hardware upgrade to make Overbridge possible!

So please Elektron keep this in mind and make it so!

Just look at this and the OT with Overbrige goes beyond of every sonic boundary!

Thanks for the compliments on my avatar :slight_smile:

Since Jon in his last comment clearly stated (any future) Octatrack will not be supporting Overbridge, no, I do not see an Octatrack supporting Overbridge in the foreseeable future.

From a managerial/entrepreneurial/marketing, as well as industrial engineering point of view: I think Elektron is making a business-critical error if Jon’s statement holds true.

  • from a technical/musical perspective, the parameter locking on all contemporary Elektron gear is the sole feature that puts Elektron apart from all of its competitors. I haven’t taken the time to conduct a legal research whether Elektron has patented it’s parameter locking, yet I suspect that principle to have been patented by Elektron otherwise I cannot understand why other brands (such as Native Instruments, Korg, Akai, Ableton or Roland) haven’t implemented the concept of parameter locking on their products. If they would, let’s take N.I.'s Maschine as an example, with all the VSTs out there, virtually all sounds can be generated, and since Maschine is a midi-controller, no need for multi-outputting an audio stream is needed: all tracks are already inside of the DAW in separate channels ready for further tweaking. As another example, have a look at Roland’s TR8 able to multi-output 11 concurrent audio streams to individual DAW-channels in real-time. Imagine the TR8 - which is also updateble by future OS’es, adding to its sound palette in case for example a 606 would be added to the TR8 - would have parameter locking. Would it be that much worse than the current Analog Rytm’s capabilities? I’d bet Elektron to have a hard time competing Roland at hardware drum computers. Overbridge isn’t what makes the ANalog Rytm unique (since the TR8 also has it). It isn’t the sound layering of the AR either, because once in the DAW you can layer as many sounds as you like on top of its analog sounds. (As a stand-alone instrument it’s great to have that on the AR, but Overbridge actually reduces that competitive advantage for studio usage). Only the parameter locking makes the Analog Rytm unique as a drum computer.

  • The Octatrack however IS unique in its kind. It has no competitors that come close to its sample mangling capabilities. Yet the lack of individual outs and the lack of Overbridge support makes the OT an “einzelgänger”, a “Lone Wolf”.
    “What happens in the OT, stays in the OT.” If I’d perceive that as a benefit, I’d emigrate to Las Vegas.

  • If Elektron would continue to ship new MK1 Octatracks at EUR 1289,-, as well as new MK2 Octatracks at EUR 1489, prices would not drop and everyone would have a choice which model suits their needs. Problem solved! (Marketing perspective)

  • Industrial engineering perspective: if the MK1 model would only differ from the MK2 model on the USB audio interface chipset level, running on the exact same backward compatible OS, with the same hardware, and possibly even with the same USB chipset (which you simply not use for multi-output streaming on the MK1-version) total production costs would actually be lowered.
    Look at BMW’s 3-series. The 316. The 318. The 320, the 328: all with the same 2 liter engine! Just with different chip settings on power/torque management! They don’t develop and produce multiple engines for each model; they simply cut down on power/torque by motor management!
    For Elektron it’s exactly the same: once you develop Overbridge software, wouldn’t it be far more cost-efficient to have it running on the Octatrack too as well as just on the AR/A4/AK?

2 points here - you could sample a 303 note in ableton, load it into sampler and set the loop point to 1 sample in a matter of seconds. You could duplicate the channel 8 times and randomly stick notes in 8 midi clips in a few more seconds. Freeze all the channels at once, slice them all to drum racks etc - another 20 secs. Arguably way quicker than on an OT - however music is not a race.

2nd point - You can’t export all 8 tracks and hopefully you knew this before you spent £1000 on an OT. Electron never claimed it could do this, and you bought it in this knowledge. Rather than racing to get 8 distorted 303 lines running in a record time, why not focus on getting your OT tracks to the point where you are happy to bounce them down as 2 stereo pairs? Just a thought.[/quote]
Wascal please read my other comments on Overbridge and the OT. And of course I knew the OT couldn’t export all individual tracks in a single take when I bought it in 2011.
I just gave an example of how much I love the OT’s capabilities and hate the fact you cannot easily bounce down individual sounds; a gap that could be OVERBRIDGED.
And of course I’m not talking about an OT-song running 8 tracks filled with only 303 basslines (…). I spelled out the procedure for 1 OT-track running a 303 bassline. Can’t you fill-out the same type of procedure for the kick drums, snares and claps, open and closed hats, bongos and toms, accompanying synth melodies and some vocals?

This is unlikely it would be more like how it went with the +Drive upgrade. From MDUW/MMmk2 to mk2+ and now they are standard +. And it would not fit price wise compared to A4 & AR.

Has anyone actually confirmed the paint finish has changed on the OT? Someone mentioned they’ received a new one with different paint, along with a different USB cable, but the fact he/she didn’t think to post pictures is puzzling…

Getting mine first thing Friday and will grab some pics.

That would be me Hooper. I didn’t think beforehand that my observations would trigger such extensive speculation.

In my mind it’s just that; a similar coating to unify the production of the three dark units and Elektron thinking it would be nice to include their own branded USB cable. And I have to say it looks quite nice, the three together like this. I’ve always found the matte finish quite stylish, but it is a lot less practical indeed. That said, the OT’s new coating still feels a bit different than that of the other two units, a bit more durable maybe?

In the few moments I had to check my new OT I didn’t notice any other physical or software differences at all and it came with 1.25b installed.

I’m quite busy, but will try to post some pictures later today.

Really who is intrested in Overbridge?

I mean that’s why you love your OT!

I would like to see other improvements instead.

All the best,

waldemaR

I honestly have no idea what “overbridge” is. You guys’ll be fine :slight_smile:

But seriously, what is overbridge and why does the OT need it? Again, I’m reminded that the OT is used by so many people for sooooo many different things.

Overbridge is Elektron’s forthcoming feature for the Analog line that adds digital outputs per channel via USB, so you can track directly to a DAW even without an audio interface.

It would be useful to have it on the OT because, while there are eight stereo channels, there are only 2 stereo outputs. If you use many tracks on the OT and want to mix down and process in a DAW, you’re forced to record each track individually (time consuming) and you have to manually repeat the same crossfader performance (which can be a problem for some setups).

I’m sure that not EVERYONE needs this, but it seems pretty useful for anyone who wants to record their Octatrack.

This forum has become something else… :rage:

Not sure if still relevant, but here are the promised pics for those interested. Upon closer inspection, the new OT finish is still different from the A4 and AR, but much smoother than the previous paint job, which was much rougher (at least mine was…)
That said, there is even a tiny difference between my A4 and AR.

The new USB cable:


Comparison. Sorry for the shitty lighting, but I think it’s clear to see that the finish is much smoother than the previous one and very close to the AR:


With better lighting. There is some grain in the paint, whereas the A4 and AR are completely smooth. It has about the same surface roughness as the grey buttons:


can you do these guys a favor and rip that thing open and confirm that there is indeed a hidden, jewel encrusted, overbridge to the rainbow, USB VIII connector located just under the LCD screen and to the right of the upper leftmost knob ??? :wink:

I had the Octatrack since its release back in January 2011, and I love mine to death, even with all its funky quirks…

It’s not like my Octatrack would immediately stop working if a MK2 version gets announced next year.

I would look at the new model. If I decided I would need the new functionality, I’d happily sell my old one, and get the MK2.

If not, I will go on having the best time of my life in regards of producing with hardware with the original Octatrack…

So, no bad feelings either way it happens…

It enables audio to be streamed direct to the computer via usb.
Given the 4 channel output of the Octatrack, this would be useful for complex sessions which you have an intention of mixing down at a later stage (outside the Octatrack)
However, I can’t see it being a realistic proposition for Octatrack. In fact I think it’s wholly unrealistic to expect this. edit : sorry, just saw Jon’s post. Thank fuck that’s been clarified. Now can we move on ?

rip that thing open…

Just did that.

confirm that there is indeed a hidden, jewel encrusted, overbridge to the rainbow, USB VIII connector

Sorry, there isn’t.

Instead, the enclosure was completely empty, apart from a marble-sized metallic sphere suspended exactly in the middle. It pulsated slowly with a green-ish light and all of a sudden started oozing a luminous smokey fluid.

Suddenly, a couple of guys stormed into my house and started questioning me. One of them announced into his radio that “we have a mess here”. All they were asking me over and over again was: “A machine that makes music?”

Totally agree.
If elektron called me up and asked if I’d prefer OT Mk II to be
(i) OT Mk I + overbridge or
(ii) OT MkI + a slew of new internal features, midi generators, sample machines, extra fx, open protocol file formats etc … I’d far prefer (ii)
I want OT to progress as a standalone box rather than to follow the herd of other manufacturers into integration back to a PC.
I got an OT in order to abandon the PC as much as possible, not to integrate more to it. I have plenty of software if I want to use a mouse, keyboard + screen. Nonetheless some improvements in project management with a PC editor would be nice.
I hope elektron continue to prioritize independence from computers over integration to them.

The wild speculation is born from wild overhype :slight_smile: it’s good elektron crushed that bit of wonder after creating it, and confirmed it was overhype after all… Some users from either side do take it too seriously (as if they actually no something others don’t, something we’re all probably guilty of at times) which is funny :smiley: but even if if you don’t use X feature Theres no reason not to wonder whilst you can… Peaz. x