*Solved* Unusual MIDI behavior controlling External Synth

[TapedTogether]

Hi Elektronauts,

Any Roland System-8 users here? I’ve been setting up my System-8 to be controlled by an Octatrack. I’ve run into a strange bug which I can only replicate in the Jupiter-8 & Juno-106 Plug-Outs (This doesn’t happen when using the System-8 Engine).

When a Plug-Out patch is set to Mono and a note is sent from the Octatrack’s sequencer, the note hangs indefinitely until I change patches on the System-8. I’ve tried changing the note length value being sent from the Octatrack but the hanging note still persists. The issue occurs with any preset that is set to mono as well as when initializing a patch and enabling Mono.

I have a Roland A-01K and tried to replicate the bug by sending a single note from it’s sequencer, and it triggered the System-8 without a problem, which leads me to believe there’s some bizarre interaction with the way Octatrack is formatting its MIDI notes. I just can’t imagine why it would only happen on the Plug-Outs and not the System-8 engine.

I’m also experiencing similar issues to user analogback in this thread

WTF supwit OT & MIDI to TRIGGER units?

With the Octatrack, its really random if the trigs will sound or not and its just plain weird [referring to OT sequencing external synths.]

it triggers every second note on or randomly with multiple sequencer trigs.
if i only place one trig it alternates every time the sequencer loops, first pass it plays, second pass it does not… this happens with the midi trigger units.

I only experience issues when the notes are sent from Octatrack’s sequencer, if I for example use a MIDI keyboard controller connected to OT and send notes via the auto channel, I don’t experience any issues with the System-8.

Any insight into this issue would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[TapedTogether]

I ran the data through MIDI Monitor and attached a photo of the output. The Octatrack generates 2 Note On (91) messages, and uses a Note On Value of 0 to designate a Note Off, whereas the non-sequencer (Keyboard) Autochannel generated MIDI uses a 91 for Note ON and an 81 for Note OFF. Could this formatting be the culprit?

[SoundRider]

I think to remember that this issue has been discussed already here in the forum somewhere in the past and I think YES, you have found the culprit. I don’t know, if there is a work around

It seems, some instruments require a Note-Off and can’t live with the “zero” only.

[TapedTogether]

I’ve reached out to Roland support to see about it from their side, if there are any System-8 users here who could run a test with their Octatrack though that’d be awesome to rule out if I just have a faulty unit. In the meantime I’m thinking a MIDI Solutions Event Processor to remap all of the Note On Velocity 0 messages into Note Off’s could be a work around. Are there any downsides to that - latency issues, etc…?

[SoundRider]

Could you send me a short description of what you did on the OT, so I can try to reproduce it in my studio?

[tsutek]

yes, this should work nicely. I doubt the lag would be considerable unless you really spam them notes (via a fast arp, retrig or similar)

[TapedTogether]

Thanks SoundRider,

Here’s the setup:

System-8:

1. Load Either Jupiter-8 or Juno-106 Plug-Out
2. Initialize the patch by holding Shift+Patch and pressing Enter
3. Enable Mono mode by pressing the Mono button once so that it lights up solid green
4. Set Patch MIDI channel to receive on the same channel that Octa is sending out on
   5. (Optional) Turn off any MIDI Rx settings that are receiving control or sync data

Octatrack

1. Octatrack MIDI OUT to System-8 MIDI IN
2. Set Octatrack’s Sync controls all off to be safe (So all we are transmitting are note values)
3. Set up an Octatrack MIDI Track to send any note value with a length of 1/8,1/4, etc… ARP set to Off, All LFO’s & CC’s Off
4. Set the MIDI Track to the same Ch.# as System-8
5. Place a note trig on the 1s step of a 16 step pattern
6. Hit Play
   On my setup, the System-8 Note remains sustained.
7. Hit Stop
   The System-8 Note continues to remain sustained until I change patches.

Another test:

System-8

1. Initialize a patch (Any Plug-Out or S8 Engine)
2. Go into System Settings and enable “Remote Keyboard” by selecting On
3. Enable the Arpeggiator by pressing the Arpeggio button

Octatrack

1. Change the note length from the previous test to a longer value (1/2, 1/1, etc.)
2. Press Play

*The Arpeggiator on the System-8 will play

3. Press Stop on Octatrack

*The Arpeggiator on the System-8 continues to play. Patch change necessary to stop note.

Looking forward to hearing any findings on your end. Cheers.

[SoundRider]

Hi … now I have done a short test myself … but I was lazy and used the chromatic mode instead of the sequencer. But this didn’t change anything

First things first … you are right! I could reproduce that “bug”.

Here are my findings …

A)

• Both plug-outs (Jupiter-8 and Juno-106) show a continuos note, if in mono-mode and controlled by the OT as described in the post above
• It seems that always the lowest key played, becomes the one, which is sticky
• Double “Stop” on the OT stops the sound
• Hitting the hanging key on the System-8 keyboard stops the sound

B)

• Both plug-outs behave well, if in either poly or unison mode
• System-8 works fine in all modes (poly, mono, unison)
• My SH-2 plug-out (monophonic synth model) in slot 3 works fine too

Now I tend to assume that this “bug” might live within the Jupiter-8 and the Juno-106 plug-out. Maybe it’s not the OT, it’s the Roland software, because why does the System-8 synth and the SH-2 do well under the same conditions, but the other two dont? Big question mark there.

My work-around is, not to use mono for the both culprits

I hope this shades a little light on this, but I confess, I do not understand it myself

[TapedTogether]

Thanks for running the tests, SoundRider. For test “B” it sounds like you didn’t have any issue with the S8 Arp enabled? I’ll pass these findings on to Roland. I’ve also got a MIDI Solutions Event Processor on the way, so I’ll try mapping the Note On 0’s into Note Off’s and will report back. Might help the folks in the other thread as well.

[SoundRider]

Oops … possibly my fault … but there is a misunderstanding … I have not been clear enough.

My part “B” is not results to your “another test”. I didn’t use the arpreggiator on System-8 yesterday. I went straight to the studio and wanted to know, whether my setup would generete hanging notes too. And as it happend to be, I wanted to know, if there is a work-around on either the OT or the System-8. I just forgot to do the second test, because in such a setup, I would almost every time use the OT as the arpeggiator … weekend …

My B) was only to check, if hanging notes are a general issue for the various mono/poly modes and synth-engines. My test-setup was only according to your first test description.

Sorry for having created some confusion.

[SoundRider]

Can the MIDI Solutions Event Processor change a Volume=0 to Note-Off? TBH I only know about it very little. I thought, it’s mostly used for filtering and routing. It would be great, if it could.

We learn every day

[TapedTogether]

No worries! Thanks again for doing the tests. I sent an email to the MIDI Solutions people, and yes indeed it can. These are the settings you would use:

Whether or not it will fix the issue, I can’t say yet. I have the Event Processor on it’s way and will post back my findings once I receive it.

[SoundRider]

Thanks for the Info.

[TapedTogether]

It’s definitely not an Octatrack specific bug. System-8 is not reading Note On Velocity 0 messages properly. I’ve been in touch with Roland support who are sending the data over to the dev team in Japan. Hopefully a fix will come sooner than later! The Event Processor should do the trick until then.