Octatrack vs Analog Rytm vs Toraiz for stem performance

Elektron Gear
#1

Hi,

I am thinking about what the most suitable device for stem based performance is, where the stems are created by myself at studio.

Octatrack (this is the only one I own and have direct experience with)

  • 8 channels
  • Practically unlimited sample storage
  • Digital insert effects
  • Timestretch straightforward

Analog Rytm

  • 8 channels at the same time
  • Analog filters, overdrive per channel
  • Analog drum sounds (this is nice, but not mandatory for this purpose)
  • Analog distortion
  • Analog compression
  • Digital send effects
  • Only 64 MB samples per song, which is 699 seconds (16bit). That’s a little small, but might be manageable. (Note that I don’t really mind having a slight pause between songs when performing)
  • Timestretching is hard, not practical
  • Pads duplicate as pressure-sensitive macro controls

Toraiz

  • 16 channels at the same time

  • Analog filters, overdrive per channel (FIX: only one filter)

  • Practically unlimited sample storage, but 32 sec length for given sample

  • Timestretch straightforward

  • Digital send effects

  • No LFOs anywhere, also no filter envelope

  • No macros

  • Modern look&feel of UI

    I know very little about how the quality&sexiness of various filters and effects compare for these machines (for reference: I love both OT and A4 reverb! OT filter is good, but I just love A4 filter), and also how the general workflow is suitable in practice for this specific purpose.
    Any thoughts?

#2
#3

If you already own an octatrck and aren’t planning to sell it I guess best things is to just make that work for you? Ive never done stems kind of stuff on it but it shouldn’t be too hard to do what you want and in traditional OT style there’ll probably be a few ways to choose from. Toraiz is 32sec maximum sample so might be a hassle to cut them up if you’re planning on running entire song length stems. Does look good for this kind of thing in general tho… But a ton of money to lay down unnecessarily if you can find a way on OT that suits you…

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#4

Yeah, that makes sense. Still, I have to convince myself that OT is the best possible option to keep my mind calm.

But you are right, the fact that I already own it is a big plus.

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#5

I think the only device which will deal with stems (i.e. long multi-tracked sample files) is the OT.

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#6

Yes but it’s easy to chop up files into multiple parts (on computer), and use some 4 bar in pattern1, other 4 bar in pattern2, etc… So I don’t see that as a big issue.

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#7

https://www.muffwiggler.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=2338030 provides a pretty good comparison between OT and Toraiz. But what about Rytm vs Toraiz?

#8

Are you using multiple stems (ie. Drums, bass, synths etc) or a mixdown? If you’re using multiple stems would OT leave you enough tracks to use OT on top how you want to? Do you want to tweak stuff live? To what extent? Do you want to use OT for mangling/other instruments etc?

Best thing to do is not even think about alternative hardware and try it with what you own already. If it works out and the workflow/performance aspect isn’t pissing you off then you saved yourself a lot of money…

Unless you’re subconsciously using the problem to con yourself in to thinking you ‘need’ something that really you just ‘want’ :wink: in which case, if you can afford it just grab whatever you like :wink:

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#9

Multiple stems, with some necessary mixdown included, because 8 tracks is a bit limiting.

This! Thanks!!! :smiley:

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#10

Read the description of this Tarekith video, it looks like it would suit your needs perfectly

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#11

I thought the Toraiz filter was one Dave Smith over the whole mix? Does it also have per channel filters?

#12

delete - double post

#13

It has per track / pad digital FX, 1 of which is a filter, though you can only use 1 fx at a time currently.

In the next OS (this month apparantly) you will be able to send each pad / track to the DSI P6 filter :slight_smile: !!!

#14

Oops. Only 1 analog filter then, and only on master.
Hm. Looking that way, it’s a very expensive machine (I thought it has 16 filters).
I don’t really see the use case of the filter as a send fx. Could you give me a hint?

How does the digital filter sound? (Is it at least as good as the OT’s?)
1 fx per channel is not too much, hm. (Can you ‘chain’ tracks ala OT neighbour machines?)

#15

Yes, only 1 analogue filter, on master. However, you can resample very quickly and easily. I’ve used it in my workflow and it does work quite well, if you need it.

I can’t imagine the cost was practical to put 16 analogue filters in this box :slight_smile:

The digital filter IMO is similar to the OT, which is very good. You don’t have the crossfader, which is, for me, the BEST part of the OT, however, you can map filter controls to the touchstrip on the Toraiz, but it doesn’t have the same granularity as the OT.

I do remember reading somewhere that there are plans to allow more than 1 FX per track, as well as increasing the different FX types.

The new OS will be out this month, I’d say hold off until then. Hopefully it will be a big jump forward.

Another issue is that I get static / buzz on my finger when I touch the metal chassis front plate when no audio / USB cables (other than the power cable) are plugged in. Others have reported this too (https://forums.pioneerdj.com/hc/en-us/community/posts/213805323-Toraiz-POSSIBLE-ELECTRICAL-FAULT-PLEASE-TEST-YOUR-UNIT-AND-REPLY-HERE) - something to be aware of (it’s happening in Ireland, UK, USA and possible other places, so no idea what may be causing it).

Having said all that, I really enjoy using it every time I turn it on (which is every time I enter the studio!). It’s inspiring and pretty to use. Reminds me of how I wanted my MPC4000 to be in terms of workflow. Sound quality is top. No regrets here. I just hope Pioneer address the current / power leakage I mentioned.

Oh, I won’t be selling my OT at the moment - way more powerful for sample mangling and long sample playback (32 seconds max on the Toraiz, as has been mentioned here a few times).

1 Like
#16

There’s really no better device for your purposes than the Octatrack.