Octatrack: Help me to love it

Elektron Gear Octatrack
#1

Hi all,

first month with my Octatrack, at first glance I was pretty enthusiast but digging through this machine…mmm…I don’t know if I want to keep it for some reasons I’m going to point out (absolutely don’t want to flame or troll, so keep it seriously). I’d really like to know what you think about because maybe I can have misunderstood something or skipped useful functions.

following the list of things that “disappointed” me

  1. FX: I found very restrictive in a creative way, the fact that you can put reverbs just only on the second slot.

  2. FX: fx quality is very poor. Filters are just unusable as EQs, not to talk about Lo-Fi…is the (sorry) crappiest “distortion” ever heard on a digital machine, korg ES2S filters and EQs are uncomparable just to say.
    All of that just come to crush my sounds and “colour” the sound too much for a sampler.
    I ended up using external stuff to process, using cue out in studio mode as “auxes”, and just skip fx on every track.

  3. Looping: I understand that probably is a machine made for rhythmic based stuff. I don’t care about polyphony but it’s really hard to avoid “clicks” at end/beginning of the sequence, when using long textures without short delays that I would not use. Release, Hold and Len params aren’t precise enough for that.

  4. Catch params: working with a MIDI controller is simply useless if you can’t have sort of “catch value” param, like it works on the electribe for example. I think that it would be an easy but important (not to say necessary) feature.

I really love the bank/parts/patterns/scene paradigm. I found this one really clever and better than any other sampler and probably the only thing that makes a difference for me but:

  1. Pickup Machines: I’ve tried to use it several ways but they would not work in a proper way…I’ve followed manual, forum threads, they just simply doesn’t work as expected and in an intuitive way…so I gave up, our time is precious to get wasted with a never working simple “looping system”.

  2. Free Plays Track: could be the most interesting and useful feature if it would work as expected. When press “play” the pattern starts when press track number again, even if plen is 1/16, hold at min and a bit of release, the pattern continue to play to the end of pattern. Can’t figure out if it’s a bug or something.

Really thinking about if I trashed my money and valuating if selling this instrument is the right solution, probably it’s just not for me.
Anyway I’d like to listen to your opinion about my points.

Thank you guys!

1 Like
#2

Hello, one month is not enough to me to digging in a machine like that. (at least for me) Also, i think you miss one thing regarding reverb only on the second slot… because you can set a Master Track. You have a lot of options regarding routing, resampling. I see that machine exactly as a dynamic performance sampler so exactly as it sold. I see it more as a propellerhead Dr Octo Rex Loop Sampler… i think one of the Key is slice everything and map Trigs accordingly.

For the coloring aspect i find it more irrelevant when using in 24bits. Of course you can dislike FX, as FX tend to be very FAST out of the equation because things gone so FAST nowadays and AU/VST is so creative in this market so … + it’s hard to beat device who are only FX… FX on the OT is goodies, OT is a sampler AT FIRST. I have a lot of Akai sampler i never like the Effects… but i never complain about my Akai sampler (or MPC)

I think it’s up to you to find how using a machine and make something no-one can do… If you say so you didn’t have to loose your time with it after one month… (only) you probably already take your decision. Shame you can do that in your 30 days money back period would been more nice to get back to the shop rather to sell it as second hand.

I think i can’t help you. i love my OT she’s perfect in my SETUP i don’t complain on any of what you advance (and for some aspects i didn’t use it in this way so it’s irrelevant to me some points) OT in my setup is couple with my X18 Behringer so i can shape the sound + effects so no complain AT ALL at least to me. it’s a pleasure to MANGLE, or PLAY my SAMPLE TRACKS and tweak what i feel to Tweak.
it’s a pleasure in studio mode to experiment and find some interesting things… resample and used in another project.

I hope other people maybe reply to you on some points and give you advise how to use it differently or fix some of the problem you have…

1 Like
#3

If you find the effects and filters better on the E2S than on the octatrack you are using them wrong! I had the E2 and have the octatrack and the are way better in the later. And the E2S doesn’t have the good filter models the E2 does!
On the other hand, a month is short to get discouraged of the octatrack, work through it!

1 Like
#4

I find the time stretch algorithm in the OT often makes things sound… vaguely unpleasant. Try experimenting with switching it off.

1 Like
#5

FX: I agree with William that the OT is first and foremost a sampler. Samplers are not sold as FX units and thus FX are meant to come as a bit of a bonus. Having said that, I do not agree that the filters are unusable. I personally find them very good for a unit like this. If you want the quality FX sound you definitely should stick to quality external FX which the OT doesn’t have and, IMO, is not apologizing for.

Looping: Are you using externally processed loops? Have you tried using the audio editor to find the zero-points? Keep in mind that if they are stereo tracks (and heavy with reverb/delay) there might be two different zero-points.

Pickup Machines: Elektron might have done it their own way as opposed to “as expected in an intuitive way” Are you sure you spent enough time with them after a month? With coming to understand them I personally don’t have a problem with them how I use them.

Plays Free: I don’t really understand the problem you’re having. If you press play, the pattern will play. Plays Free is intended that the track will play outside the sequencer. If it’s in plays free mode you can still play the track while the pattern is stopped. If you play the pattern the pattern will play.

With some caveats (which aren’t really the OT’s problem), I think it’s a tremendous machine.

#6

I think it’s fine to do transitions and quick, interesting time warps…

But if, for example, I wanted to stretch out a sample that I intended to take center stage in my track, I would never use the OT to do it.

1 Like
#7

FX: reverbs just only on the second slot.

Not a big deal, if you want to modulate reverb or delay, wich are usualy at the end on the effect chain, you can use Neighbors.

FX: fx quality is very poor. Filters are just unusable as EQs, not to talk about Lo-Fi…

Effects are not the best but I think filters are pretty good, (any numerical filter better reference ?), compressor, comb filters are interesting too.
The strenth is in p-locking the effects. Do you know other products sequencing effects with the ability to morph up to 240 parameters (8x30) ? No.

Looping: it’s really hard to avoid “clicks” at end/beginning of the sequence,

I agree that fades are not well implemented to avoid clicks compared to Boss RC 505. Better with Pickups.

Catch params:

You can send all midi CC of audio tracks with CC61 (Send request).

I really love the bank/parts/patterns/scene paradigm.

That’s not what I prefer !

Pickup Machines

With good settings (personally One2, Qrec and Qplay set to Plen), it is an good looper for me (I’m selling my RC 505, and I would buy another Ot instead, if nothing better comes out).

Free Plays Track

Quite unusual feature, that’s a plus !

Really thinking about if I trashed my money and valuating if selling this instrument is the right solution, probably it’s just not for me.

Sell it !

5 Likes
#8

If you’re past the store return date and don’t need the money right now, give it another month or two and try not to compare it to other units like Es2 etc in the meantime. Experiment as much as you can and find stuff that you DO like. I was underwhelmed with fx/filter to begin with, compared to Roland sp etc they seemed to be pretty weak, but the more I messed with them via LFOs/Plocks etc I started to dig them. They do give the OT a kind of sound of its own like you say tho so it’s down to user preference…
After a couple more months go back through all the projects you’ve made and listen through. You could be surprised… I ended up with approx 60 tracks/ideas after a few months just from learning (some of) the machine. Stuff that wouldn’t have happened on any other sampler. Killed any doubts I had about keeping it…

1 Like
#10

I was not expecting “good sounding” EFX after hearing YouTube examples, even if Electron claims them to be. They are nothing close to VSTs, but they are there which is a bonus. I mainly avoid the efx, but actually find them useful in a livesituation:

  • Setting a reverb to 127 to 'freeze" textures.
  • Rhythmic not synced delays to get new grooves.
  • Compressor as limiter on the master track to kill or soften peaks (Need to experiment more to have an honest opinion about how good it works, but a nifty bonus to save space)

Actually I dont mind the filters (just keep in mind to set the hp before the width). Sometimes I use the res (but them manually often switch it to hp or lp instead of both). The notes becomes more sustained (but you can set the note lenght to less to tackle some of its effect), the dist effect on the extended filter page is quite blunt, but I often end up using a few percents. (not to mention if you want to turn kicks into baselines, the filter section is a Quick Way to filter and get extra harmonics). If I want more quality bass I’ll sequence virus snow from the OT wich it does a very good job at.

As for the Efx if you find it really limiting, how about some small efx box? I use my virus for a range of efx (which is an ease since it recalls patches with different effects corresponding to the OTs bank and it switches automaticly).

While a virus is very expensive to use just for its effects, Maybe just get a guitarpedal in the area you find the OT the weakest? Hmm, maybe someone can fill me in - are there affordable effect pedals (or similar) that can change between different user patches via Midi?

#11

Love it or leave it. :grin:
I didn’t even imagine it could be possible to have a machine like that 10 years ago, I’ll keep it forever. :heart_eyes:

2 Likes
#12

Thanks so much everybody for your replies and for giving really useful advices!
I love you get my “non-flame” purpose but the real “musician crisis” one <3

Sure this is a nice features and it works fine with endless dials but not with pots or faders and not with every MIDI controller.

First thing I’ve done after the first power on was make a basic template project with NO TIMESTRETCH at all on every machine, just don’t need it :joy:

totally agree, nothing to say on p-locks stuff, it’s really great, I use it expecially to differentiate a bit from patterns assigned to the same parts (I don’t like super ultra mega twisted scramblings effects or sequences :slight_smile: ) [quote=“sezare56, post:7, topic:33983”]
That’s not what I prefer !
[/quote]

can I ask you why? For example, for me is very useful to organize my mind around a live set, I can have a better global idea navigating through patterns assigned to different scenes and parts![quote=“sezare56, post:7, topic:33983”]

Quite unusual feature, that’s a plus !
[/quote]
Quite a plus, I love it but sometimes I don’t get it, expecially with very long samples. I use it as one2 1/16 with the aim to play/stop machines when I want without playing necessarily the sequencer. I mean, sometimes I feel like the OT isn’t exactly a machine but a sort of music player you have to trust a bit. I’m trying to figure out if I like it :smiley:

ahah no prob man, I AM a newbie with the OT and I know it :slight_smile:
but the point is not the learning curve, I found the OT complex and complete, but it’s not difficult to use and learn it. It’s damn logical and I love it. Then, I need really few things to play my music and I don’t want to be an Octatrack Expert, just figure out if I can do easily.
Basically I’ve taken the OT because on the paper it seems to be the only hardware sampler with some capabilities that allow me to quit the hated/loved laptop when on stage.
Obviously, when you read the Manual or see Tutorials before buying…only the fascinating aspects are highlighted :slight_smile:

I’m totally agree, it’s the part that take the most of my time when prepping the “live mix” or doing a soundcheck

I am aware of that, but something I really feel the lack of a little overlap, like 2 voices polyphony…ok, you can simply do it with just short fade or a bit of delay…but it’s not the same of a really continuous texture…

I am actually using a MOD Duo pedal board, not amazing pugins right now but I love the capabilities and I trust in the future would be improved terrificly…last but not least, I can compile my own C++ code exported from C’74 Max7 to make my own FXs and that is audio porn coding on so many levels :heart_eyes:

#13

I really love the bank/parts/patterns/scene paradigm.

Parts behaviour and the fact that you have the stop the Ot to load a project can be confusing at first.
Mod Duo seems interesting.

#14

People that don’t like the effects probably aren’t using them correctly. Not saying it’s the users fault necessarily, just that it takes some knowledge about how to use effects. Try delay on one track and set up a dark reverb on a neighbour track. Then almost max out the delay and reverb and adjust the hp on the reverb and lower the sends. You can also use lfo’s on the effects. The lfo’s make all the difference. For example you can lfo the pitch on a combfilter to create evolving drones and pads. Record the output and mangle again. The options are limitless.
For me the OT is a killer drum machine plus soundscape maker plus midi melody maker (when hooked up to a polyphonic synth) plus dj turntable plus great effects unit.
Some people get the OT and others’ don’t. So I guess it just depends on the person. The OT is not for everyone. For example I can’t spend more than 30 minutes using a DAW before getting bored whereas I can get lost with the OT for hours and hours.

7 Likes
#15

^ What he said.
I’ve had mine over two years and am still finding things that bring immense pleasure.
Yes, it can be a tad frustrating and confusing at times but when you get it, all that just pails into insignificance.
The folks on here are a mine of information and knowledge. Watch some YouTube vids, read the manual and Merlin…again and again. Stick with it and get inspired… or, as mentioned above, just give up and sell it.
I think Oscar Wilde said it best…
“Tired of the OT, tired of life”
:wink:

4 Likes
#16

It’s easy to quit Octatrack.
I do it 20 times a day.
Oscar Wilde.

11 Likes
#17

As others already pointed out … the OT has so many features and some in the “infamous Elektron way” that one month is quite a short period to wrap your head around this machine. If there are no major issues you simply loath, I would suggest, give both of you more time.

Here my few cents to …

Looping:

To get pad-like sounds looping smoothly is not easy. Some samplers do it inside the sample itself to prevent glitches. To achieve this, they make use of “start-of-sample”, “loop-point1”, “loop-point2” and “end-of-sample” markers. The looping is executed between well chosen loop-points and the looping is controlled by the duration of the “sustain” of a note. That’s not like most performance samplers like the OT or MPC are working.

To get acceptable results with “start/end” markers only we can try to create a copy of the loop, which allows us to be as similar at both ends as possible. To search for zero-crossings only may not be sufficiant, because many pad-patches have wanted fluctuations to be interesting and if you loop at the “wrong” moment, you will listen to clicks or something, which is just not in the flow of the sound character. All of this takes some ear training, experience and training on the machine, and is independent whether it’s an OT or another sampler.

Pickup Machines:

Maybe the manual is not very easy to understand in this section and there are more than one option to make use of it. There is manual control of “recording”, “overdubbing”, “playing-back without overdubbing”, “switching overdubbing on after play-back-only-mode” and so forth. There is also a section describing how to control it from a Midi-foot-pedal, which is very handy (or footy), if we need both hands to do other things rather to hit one of the two red buttons on top of the OT.

I only can compare the OT to my old Boss RC-50 Loopstation. The OT does the same job, but not completely different. What I like on the OT is that we can have 8 loops of different lenghts each.

#18

Yes thanks, but please, avoid this kind of “basic stuff” because I’ve just tried it for sure :slight_smile:

I’ve read Merlin’s book and it’s awesome, I’d digged the manual and the forum, sure, I’m really really really inspired by music in general but not the way OT makes me think about music…it’s not about “being elected by a mystic force to use the OT”, it’s about features I’ve pointed out that I feel the lack of. I’m not interested in special tricks or super cool stuff you can do only on the OT, if I’ve time for that I’ll learn it and have fun. I’m talking about the lack of very basic features and peculiar trait of the OT that rapresent a huge limit for me. Just looking for confirmation or denial to figure out if I’m using the right machine for my approach and stop losing time studying something I don’t really have the need and time for :slight_smile:

Es.: try to load an high quality (well recorded) sample on the OT with -12dB RMS, play it from a computer and from the OT with no filters or stuff. It is not transparent, confirm?

Es.: I want to compress a reverbered static machine, the use of a neighbour track is mandatory, I can’t do it with on a single Machine. Probably because of processor usage or I don’t know. But if I want to do this I have to lose an audio track.

Es.: “Catch MIDI Params” I need to use CC61, tricky and time consuming, not working with every controller -> can’t use it with regular MIDI controllers at least as I don’t use just a single part…

From my point of view all those stuff are big limits so I’m trying to understand if I’ve REALLY miss something or it’s just the way OT is.

this is the first thing leaded me to choose the OT. But if I need to use a Neigbhour track like in the Reverb/Comp case before on two tracks, tracks became 6…
For the looping, I’ve tried all the solutions, there is not a simple “easy way” to do that, and this is pretty “disturbing”.

Instead I find the manual really clear and logical, problem is this “Infamous Elektron Way” that I probably don’t like

#19

Eventide H9, if that fits your definition of affordable.

#20

That’s not a trivial or obvious FR to assume would be present - you’re asking for the developers to offer two modes, a spontaneous change mode and a mode where there is value pickup mapping - i see lots of devices which offer internal parameter pickup modes, but i am not so familiar with many which operate on that basis by external input control - i dare say this exists, but it’s far from the norm - the key thing about the OT, is that it’s there to be touched, and by using encoders, there’s no need for catchup modes (but as pointed out, you can send the CC values out, but that won’t move physical faders)

i’d also like to echo the sentiments from above - the OT takes time to find its place in your workflow - it’s power remains hidden until you begin to understand its scope -i don’t think it’s possible to fully understand just how flexibly it can be used, so we’re all still learning it … anyone who says otherwise is not trying hard enough imho … the possibilities from internal resampling are huge

i agree it’s a shame you can’t reverse the order of fx slot a and b, even though they’re in the right order for most cases - but it’s unreasonable to expect reverb in every fx block, there has to be compromises

i find it best to focus on what it can do, rather than worry about what it doesn’t do in the right way … it’s still bewilderingly powerful and flexible

1 Like
#21

Even after all here have chimed in, and you’re not convinced, if it’s keeping you from being creative, it aint your friend. Sell it and get something that won’t stunt your music.

2 Likes