Don’t be afraid of the DAW. Get a basic interface and Reaper, spend a few days learning how to use it. Trust me, I’m a doctor
1 Like
Define your own right/wrong, make it work for you. You are the creator.
Maybe if you do that long enough, people will ask you for advice, because you did it your way for a very long time.
2 Likes
My father doesn’t trust doctors, and he was a doctor ! 
Easier in DAWS, but you can finish tracks in Octatrack. Many full albums made with 8 tracks tape recorders (even 4 tracks).
Export tracks, play them in Statics and mix / eq, export premixes…
Good monitors / headphones.
This is your mix quality bottleneck, and is presenting you with far greater challenges than being DAW free.
Focus on getting this upgraded.
There is no sense in using new tools for mixing if you can’t truly hear the changes you are making in the mix.
10 Likes
i think the main thing to focus on is maintaining the momentum of your cool track productions as the one shown has a great vibe.
but as regards monitoring, no system is perfect, and using a range of options is always sensible. trial and error surely are part of the journey towards getting a great mix for any song. except for the super pro’s.
re/ economical speakers…
some talk on the forums have praised the JBL 305 near field monitors …
although i don’t know how much sub information they deliver, the price is nice…
others have indicated the fascinating “Subpac S2” for accessing sub frequencies without irritating the neighbours…
personally i love the Genelec Tri-System although only have one speaker left from that entire setup … long story.
will most likely invest in the same system again, or go with the expensive set of Genelecs that don’t need a sub so they say.
seeing as how you are going great without a DAW, then personally i would recommend avoiding a DAW for as long as possible.
Not saying I agree with everything here, but the guy has got a few points! 
Some things are simply easier in a DAW.
I’ve gone down the route of trying to mix on the OT myself, but found it took a lot of time, and in the end it was just so so so much easier and quicker (and more enjoyable!) to do in Ableton Live. I feel like mixdowns are one of the processes in music production that really has to happen on a computer, it’s the ideal tool.
… in my opinion.
1 Like
You can only take your music so far without a daw. Its so much easier and will sound much better than trying to shoehorn and edit tracks in hardware only.
Technology is there, why not take advantage if it
1 Like
…I mostly wanted to make the point that should the OP decide to go that way, Ableton (expensive) is not the only, or even necessarily the best option…
2 Likes
Hehe, yeah, I get that it sounds a bit arrogant, but it just sounds like OP is trying to really come up with the solution to a problem (mixing), so why not use the best tool to do just that? I wouldn’t wear my underpants as a hat to screen my bald head from the sun just because I really don’t like hats. I’d just find a hat that I like.
But to re-iterate, it’s of course possible to get some mixing done in the OT, and with all the Elektrons, really, but you’ll spend a lot of time working around the problem, using up a lot of the machine’s resources and creative potential, and not getting good results (as OP says himself in the first post). At least try to use a DAW for mixing for a project or two, and see if you get a hang of it and maybe even enjoy the process - that would be my tip. 
2 Likes
Consider putting the Allen&Heath Qu 16 mixer at the heart of your setup:
- up to 18x multi track recording (straight to your usb harddrive, no pc needed)
- dedicated eq + compressor for each track
- no daw needed, but bouncing the session into a daw = you already have an arrangement
3 Likes
Sure! Old tape music was made by cutting up pieces of tape and splicing it together - extremely time consuming. It’s obviously possible, but time consuming, and you might not get good results. It sounds to me (I’m just assuming, so apologies if I’m wrong) like OP has himself experienced first hand the downsides of mixing on hardware, and is somehow looking for a “trick” or something to make it easier - and the answer is, well, it’s been said a few times now. Either live and work with the constrains of not mixing in a daw, and do it the old and slow way of mixing on a desk, or maybe try the alternative, just try to see if maybe it can be enjoyable. I don’t think there’s a trick to speed up the process (from my own personal experience of trying to mix on the OT and through a mixing desk - I spent at least three years trying to do this) - just practise and get good at it. I fought using a DAW for so long myself, and ended up just embracing it after accepting it made my workflow so much easier and quicker, I could focus way more time on the “fun” and creative side of music making.
1 Like
You could perhaps follow up that statement with suggestions to what these alternatives are
Well, I don’t think people are suggesting he has to use ableton, it was op who mentioned that. People have suggested Reaper which is a very good alternative.
And when people say, use a DAW even though he had stated he does not want to, it is fair to consider that they might just want to stear him away from going down a blind alley.
I don’t want to make too big an assumption, but since he has stated he mixes through logitech gaming speakers, I would be surprised if he was looking to acquire a mixing desk and a reel to reel tape recorder.
I would say to OP that if you want more polished results, and more flexibility, abandon this idea of not working with a DAW. At least download reaper and give it a whirl, it’s basically free. There is amazing technology available for very little money if you have a computer. And if you learn to use it effectively it will start to feel less like you’re stuck in computer land.
That was far too long, yikes.
3 Likes
stay away from computers and DAW’s as much as possible.
if necessary to use something then the most simple to access the better.
the less computers involve themselves with your already-admirable progress, the better.
the track posted is sounding fabulous already, so if it ain’t broke don’t fix the system - even if it is a system of trial and error, the output sounds fabulous.
and there isn’t a system that doesn’t include trial and error.
as regards mixing tips and tricks, one idea regarding intuition is if your chest contracts when contemplating an option, that might mean your intuition is saying no, whereas if you experience a sense of expansion in the chest area when contemplating an idea, that may indicate your intuition is saying potentially it’s a cool idea.
this sense of intuition may be then brought to the mixing scenario.
that’s about all i got.
oh, i remember a girl once saying when deciding on what to wear before going out - when the outfit is selected, she turns around once in front of the mirror and the first thing she notices when facing the mirror again, she takes it off.
1 Like
actually surprise surprise, i do know one mixing trick that would be relevant to mention …
on the Master Effects Track, choose a single effect, the regular two-band EQ.
set the Gain of one of those bands to minus ten, leave the other neutral at zero.
on the frequency band that has the ten degrees of reduction,
start to sweep the frequency parameter.
if that somehow ‘improves’ the mix to any degree, or fixes any perceived problem areas, make a note of the frequency and the gain reduction. Then remove the effect from the Master Effects Track. This way, the effect need not lessen areas of tracks where certain tracks do not need to be lessened.
go and try applying the same effect with the same or similar frequency band reduction to individual tracks.
Maybe the bass and bass drum tracks, or a synth chord and a snare drum track.
this same technique can be done with the High and the Low frequency bands of the DJ EQ effect. Similar effect yet different but the technique is the same, seeking to avoid lessening the overall richness of a song mix when only a couple of elements are requiring a particular frequency band attenuation (reduction).
One more tip: take three decibels off the hihats. Or use the High Frequency band adjustment along with gain reduction on the DJ EQ effect to tame the higher frequencies of the hihats.
3 Likes
I think its not feasible to mix without a DAW, because you would need a very expensive studio to compensate. Its just not worth to go that route. The Qu Mixer is good as audio interface as well. You could combine HW with SW this way.
1 Like
I’m a UI designer by trade and I stare at a computer screen 40 hours a week. I’d like to stare at something else while I do my hobby if possible. That’s mainly it. Of course I’m happy to use a computer for recording a final mix, just trying to avoid spending $500 for that sole purpose if possible…
This sounds like a nice trick, I’ll try it thanks!
Lots of great advice in this thread, really appreciate it guys.
On the advice of another friend I’ve re-run the track through a limiter in audacity in post and re-uploaded the file in that soundcloud link above… def a bit punchier now.
I don’t know, the more anybody ever tells me I “have to” do something or it can only be done one way, the more I don’t want to and the less likely I am do it that way. That being said, got nothing against DAW’s…
I certainly appreciate rules being put out for me to break though… 
2 Likes