DT/MPC vs. DAW and the rest of the world

The Lounge Other Gear
#1

I’m on the fence on both atm. Doesn’t Ableton + Push2 do all the DT stuff for you too tho? Seems very similar workflow/ui potentially?

It’s a genuine question. Not trying to be negative on DT :slight_smile: Only used my Push2 a few times, like 5 hours total, yet to gel with it, and I haven’t updated my Ableton version yet but heard they nailed p-locks now? and the Ableton sampler is incredible…

I’d have (possibly naively) guessed it kind of blew DT out the water as much as it could be said to cover MPC functions? Like I said, genuine question, not trying to be negative :slight_smile: What’s the pull of DT if you’re already down with Ableton and Push2? I’m just curious :slight_smile:

Digitakt v MPC Live: real buyers survey (UK£)
#2

In the end I got a Maschine Jam. I realized that my laptop with Maschine software and Ableton is actually a great tool. I just learnt how to turn the internet off - yeah. Actually Maschine has the same functionality as Digitakt - even down to the pitching of tiny bits of samples to make new instruments. Pattern making is really easy and with Jam there isn’t much menu diving at all. The effects are great plus I got Monark, Massive and Prism synths for free plus a load of sample packs. Good deal for 400 euros IMO.

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#3

I’ve really enjoyed MAschine Jam since getting it. Yes it’s like Push but Maschine is just that little bit more immediate and the touch strips are fantastic. Interesting to see NI’s open letter about a few things “coming soon” in the software (we’ll see…).

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#4

Yeah I’m looking forward to the updates. MJ works pretty well in Ableton but I would like a bit more integration with Reaktor - although you can load Reaktor blocks inside Mascine software. I really like the touch strips - really something - plus automation is very easy. The piano roll mode is really good too. Note repeat works nicely.
When I first saw the jam I thought it looked a bit like a simple Ableton clip launcher - but it’s really quite a ‘deep’ instrument in it’s own right. The best thing for me is how a short pattern will get duplicated into a longer pattern. So if I have a 2 bar drum loop and want to add a 16 bar drone (for example) the 2 bar loop gets duplicated to fit the 16 bar drone. This means I can fire off one shots and then edit my basic two bar drum pattern (which has now become a 16 bar pattern) against the one shot. And its super easy to do this from the MJ interface.

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#5

The difference is how the DT will play nice with external gear much better than Ableton. It’s always the case because latency always rears its head and is a real vibe killer. Not something I want to deal with in a live setting. DT and MPC Live will give rock solid timing whereas Ableton will jitter all over the place, this will leave you with a compromised work around. Ableton, Push 2, sound card, midi interface, midi sync device, and external synth of your choice. That’s a lot of gear! With the DT or MPC all you need is a midi cable and another synth. Boom done!
Edit; please switch my vote to BOTH.

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MIDI timing discussion
#6

Yeah, I’m with you :slight_smile: my post was mainly in response to another that was saying, ‘ableton and push cover same as MPC’, I was just saying that seems equally true for DT? :wink:

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#7

You are correct, Ableton + Push can do everything a Digitakt can or a MPC Live.
The only thing I don’t like is that it is not immediate nor gives you the possibility of having “happy accidents”.
I want a faster workflow achieving a good sound without having to browse to hundreds of effects and maybe thousands of presets.
I want a device with an instrument feel, with sound character and with a really streamline workflow.
That’s why I chose to buy the digitatkt.
And to finish up my songs Ableton is perfect.

**What you said about p-locks in Ableton is partly true BUT there is just a tiny list of parameters that you can change per step… Nothing compared to Elektron’s

#8

You could always set up an 8 track template in ableton with the same options as DT hardwired in to Push2 and limit yourself that way? I keep meaning to do something similar (tho not based on DT, just my go to plugins/chains/kits etc).

In a way I’m just playing devils advocate. I understand the strong appeal of legit hardware/new gear :wink: It’s just the way you wrote about crossing MPC off your list cos Ableton/Push had you covered… Just wondered if you could potentially save yourself some money/integration hassle etc and do the same for DT?

There are probably a bunch of nuances that I’m missing tho. Having to wait for computer to turn, using mouse to open ableton etc for one… Weird how those small things make it feel ‘different’ to just switching on a standalone box. And probably some stuff in DT that isn’t quite the same in Ableton. Tho prob very similar or better vst alternatives available for far cheaper to fill those gaps…(im mainly thinking granular plugins etc).

I think once my kids are grown a little more and I don’t need portable/standalone so much for sofa jams I’ll probably throw myself in to Ableton/Push pretty hard… Will keep as much hardware as I can afford to as well tho :wink: But doubt I’ll be buying much digital hardware after that happens and I can sit at my main setup more often again…

Re ableton p-locks, I’m not certain but last time I briefly used Push I’m pretty sure I was p-locking ANY parameter in there… Filters, 3rd party plugin params, sample locks etc. This was when it had the weird behavior tho and params would only p-lock for the step, so like reverb wouldn’t swell til the next ‘trig’. Literally just on the one step. I heard they fixed that tho? Been meaning to update for ages…

#9

Elektron is not about possibility, its about usability and audio quality

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#10

Damn straight.

#11

Haha :slight_smile: I was just trying to maybe help someone save some dough :wink: Wasnt knocking Elektron or DT…

If someone is heavy in to Ableton and Push and doesn’t need portable/standalone I just kinda struggle to see the need for DT OR MPC, except for fun/new toy (which is fair enough if you can afford it :). I don’t really see a big workflow/usability or ‘audio quality’ improvement like you mention with DT/Mpc over Push? It’s pretty easy to limit yourself in Ableton if that’s what you want and set it up how you like :wink:

Only my point of view tho, not saying it’s gospel :wink:
People are crazy defensive about Elektron on here sometimes!

#12

What else would you expect on a fanside for elektron?

#13

Fair point :wink: I was genuinely just trying to offer a flipped perspective in case it helped save some money/better integration for someone that’s apparently already based in Ableton/Push2 but…

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#14

Instead of hyperbole that could come straight off a marketing ad it might be more enlightening/constructive to highlight the things that this sentence actually refers to and highlight the real world differences between using Push2 and DT (for someone with ableton/push already in their setup/workflow)? As a Push owner I’m genuinely interested. Im curious if I can make Push basically as nice to use as DT with same functionality or if there are some walls I’d hit if I tried. I’ve barely used Ableton in a long time and almost zero time on Push but it’s something I’ve always planning on getting more in to at some point. Just wondering where these differences are that you speak of lay and how significant they are?

#15

I’ve owned push 2 and yea it integrates very well with ableton but I was always just faster with a keyboard n mouse so sadly I failed to see the real world advantage of it.
push is still tethered to a laptop and for me I’m never gonna use a laptop on stage again, they seem to love crashing at the worst possible moment.
push is different to dt in many ways, n not a comparison I care about much.
you’re really just comparing ableton to dt now.

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#16

I think it can be compared to NI Form

especially if you combine it with a good sequencer, like Ableton… or max

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#17

Yeah I can totally understand there’s no comparison for anyone or situation where they don’t wanna use a laptop :slight_smile: I wouldn’t want to use laptop on stage either. But that side of things was never mentioned so it seemed like a more valid comparison.

As a very basic ableton user and someone with almost zero time on Push I just wondered how close they could really be made to be and the benefits from each side. Maybe I’ll try to set up a DTesque template here if I get some time and see how it feels. Doesn’t seem like anyone else is really interested but I’d be curious just for my own sake now after bringing it up…

#18

This was kind of my point :wink: If you have everything from equivalent 3rd party plugs mapped to Push and cover ONLY the same params as DT… I don’t see there being much difference in workflow/audio quality etc and it would be far cheaper to buy a couple of plugins/synths (for someone already using Push2/Ableton as a central part of their setup etc and not needing standalone).

I just thought tho, using Push2 as a quasi-DT means you maybe couldn’t use it as you normally might, in contrast to using DT separately in TANDEM with Ableton/Push. If that was something someone wanted to do. The relationship would be kind of different with both things being inside one box. So maybe that would be the biggest difference? Could be good or bad thing I guess, depending on user workflow etc…

#19

Well yeah :wink: if you read back the discussion was born from someone saying Ableton made MPC live unnecessary for them, so seemed natural to question if the same statement could be made re Ableton vs DT :wink:

#20

Had some how missed Form! Im still on K9 but making the move to K11 as soon as a sale lands. Form could well be what I’m looking for ITB.

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