Pattern chaining on the OG KO is awesome! Shocked it’s not included!
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I’m not really talking about a technical aspect, I’m talking about the process and how it leads to different ideas. The thing about the sequencer is that, to me, it’s not just a sequencer on the Digitakt. The way the Elektron sequencer blurs the boundaries between sequencing and sound design is a big part of what makes the experience unique. Lay out a few trigs, hold a few of them and twist some knobs and suddenly you stumble over gold.
You’re of course technically right that the MPC is lightyears ahead when it comes to sample manipulation and sound design, but it’s still a much more deliberate process of getting to uncharted territories.
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I hear you, you’re talking about it as a compositional tool, or an idea generator… and I suppose ‘best sampler’ is ambiguous and open to interpretation. As I said previously, I get my Elektron fixes through every current device except the DT, and they’re all fantastic for their own jobs, but personally I don’t think of any of them as a ‘sampler’, even the Octatrack.
Push 3 Standalone makes a powerful sampler too, btw… I just don’t think the ‘sampler workflow’ is there yet.
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Yeah, that’s it. For me it’s all about making music, I don’t think of sampling as something distinct from picking out any suitable sound for the music I want to compose. It’s just that I find that, among samplers, the DT has so far been the one that has been the most delightful in terms of happy accidents, but the MPC has pushed me the farthest in terms of leveraging samples in tasteful ways in full tracks. I love them both.
And conversely, the SP-404 mk2 has been my worst experience. Technically it’s perhaps the most qualified “pure sampler” of the three, but that’s also the problem: I couldn’t use it to make music.
100% agree. Sampling is clunky on the Push. Hopefully they’ll improve the workflow in the coming years.
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mine is a ‘drum computer’ and it seems as real as my 7-8 other hardware samplers. Most definitely as real as my 2 Akai hardware samplers.
Perhaps it is the vague question or concept - best workflow.
If I’m chilling on my couch with my dog, something like my SP or 
or E2s provide me the best workflow.
If I’m sitting out a rain storm in my car at work, my BlackBox fits nicely in my center console, is powered by the cars USB, and I can jam out through my cars speakers. This workflow is best for the car.
If I’m home, my MPC or Force are the right workflows, along with Ableton/Bitwig/Serato.
Skipback has become a great tool to go back and uncover jewels.
But the best thing to happen to my sampling work flow by far - getting an audio interface/mixer that can record internally and work independently from the PC. If I sit down for a session I can just hit record at the start and capture everything - whatever my PC is doing, my synths, watching uTube, movies… it’s all there if I want it.
With my 256gb memory card in my interface I basically have a 24hr Skipback. If nothing magical happens during a session I just delete it.
Pro tip - don’t actually record a 12 hour session!! My interface has a big and convenient ‘record’ button, so I stop/start the recording every 20-30 minutes so I have smaller chunks to work with. I note on my white board which recordings I want to keep to make finding stuff easier the next session.
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Amazing! I do this with my DAW, but having a hardware solution that does that is so much better & immediate to me (I went from a setup with analog mixers to expanding my audio interface to 36 channels, now I use my DAW as mixer). Maybe I’ll hook my Zoom H5 up to a bus out permanently and do what you do with that thing. I usually record my live jams, but I never thought of capturing the whole creative process and scrub it for interesting phrases, parts and sounds afterwards! Very cool!
EDIT:
Interesting! In a way, I’m glad I got the SP404 BEFORE they brought out firmware 2.0. I feel all the additions made, while welcome, made the workflow a bit convoluted, especially if one came to the SP404 for the first time after firmware 2.0. They really should offer an updated faceplate with better labelling of all the (new) shortcuts. Personally, I just ignore the sequencer and use the resampling workflow to reduce friction/complexity…to me it’s amazing but I can also see how it can be frustrating.
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trying to figure out, what IS sampling then? and what is the ‘sound design’ that MPC is ‘light years’ ahead of Digitakt? is it also ahead Octatrack?
everybody else seems to argue that MPC is more of a composing tool, a device to arrange samples. must be the first time I’m reading it is so advanced in sample manipulation. Digitakt you say is a drum-oriented, but it doesn’t even have pads. MPC with pads and hip-hop history to beat is now a more advanced sample mangler than Elektrons. go figure.
what’s that mixer/interface you’re talking about? not too many are in existence that I’m aware of. and just a few of them could do multitrack recording, usually only the stereo mix.
but I guess that if one uses the PC anyway, internal recording ability of the mixer is not that important. that’s what I’ve been doing for ages too (and having had mixers with internal recording, I still used a DAW for that, due to many benefits in quality and further editing)
Yeah, it’s a personal thing. I can’t make music without a sequencer so the idea of even purchasing an SP before 2.0 wouldn’t have crossed my mind anyway. Of course, I could use the live rec mode on the SP, but it only got me to the next point of frustration of not being able to dial back the reverb I just printed on a resampled pad. Just that whole resample-and-commit workflow isn’t for me other than as a way to create fun textures in the background of the music I’m making.
One thing I do think Push 3 should copy over from the SP is skipback though. That would solve the whole “sample workflow” issue of the Push in one go. Imagine playing on those pads and twisting on some knobs and just hold down the Rec button to immediately get the last xx seconds in a Simpler device.
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Thanks all. So I just changed the thread title to ‘your favourite’. Clearly best is always subjective…
I’ve become obsessed with the fader dominated workflow of the SP1200. I’m guessing that apart from the clones and remakes, this is unique to the SP1200.
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SP1200 is one I‘d love to try. I think the faders are genius. Especially with samplers, I feel the more tactile and direct the sample manipulation feels, the better. Physical movement having a direct effect on sound…so good.
That’s what I don’t like about the MPC Live in particular when It comes to sample mangling/sound design. It does a lot, so much really, but with those 4 q-links and the majority of action happening on the touchscreen, it just feels removed and a little static to me…MPC X is much better in that regard. I guess I just really like tactile, expressive interfaces.
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I use the mixer/interface that is best for my workflow, which absolutely does not require multitracking in any shape or form ever. Not ever.
My workflow needs do however require it to host 2 computers/tablet or combination, while also allowing a stereo in, two microphones, wireless mics, Bluetooth audio & calls in with mix-minus and other small features - best filled by my Rode. Forget the model name. The current one, the bigger version of the Duo.
Best music making audio interface/mixer I’ve found so far for my needs. Not gonna lie, the multiple shiny colourful RGB pads probably influenced my purchasing decision as well.
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First off, I should acknowledge that I’ve been making music since the early 90s, so come at it with that mindset… sampling to me meant/means ‘sampling’… so being able to get/flip samples from vinyl, cassettes, videos, etc, was a big deal. Of equal importance was being able to sample instruments and have them as library of keygroups… having access to ‘real’ pianos, synths, strings, etc, was an equally big deal.
So, it’s still with this personal mindset of mine that the MPC is way ahead of the DT and OT as a sampler.
-
- Need I continue?
(…that’s where the Elektron devices have evolved from, right?)
- Need I continue?
‘Sample Mangler’ is different again though, and also subjective. I think the Rytm/OT/DT are all great at that, especially in the context of sequencing it (which is where they are better than MPC’s).
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Evolution and reoccurring cycles dictate we will all abandon samplers one day and return to a simpler time…
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is it this one?
it can really work with 2 computers, that’s an interesting device!
I’d never even look at it (precisely because of those Xmas tree lightshow 
and podcaster positioning). it can also multitrack actually, I mentioned that simply because you’ve named many instruments but not the mixer model, so it sounded like something rare — and turned out to be so, imo.
may I ask, how do you use Bluetooth audio, wireless mics and calls (phone calls?!) in your music production? or is it for convenience/other work?
I feel the more tactile and direct the sample manipulation feels, the better. Physical movement having a direct effect on sound…so good.
that’s what I love about M:S and its knobs per function. recently I switched my mindset and started playing it more like an instrument, allowing all the happy accidents and imperfections to happen and its so much fun.
many helpful tips here:
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aha! me being stupid. okay, that makes sense ofc.
so ‘sampling’ we talk about here is mainly about recording and organisation, being able to create and play the entire (sampled) instrument, many of those.
I get you with ‘sampling’ now, and agree with those devices evaluation… but how about ‘sound design’? this is more peculiar. what’s the particulars of the sampling-sound-desing here? I presume that with the ‘classical’ approach above, it’d be bread-and-butter stuff, like recorded audio editing, slicing, repitching/timestretching, and ‘light years’ meaning ease of use and audio quality vis-a-vis the Elektrons?
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The answer is D - all of the above!
Not calls for work, but my girlfriend likes to FaceTime me and watch me jam and hangout so I’ll use a wireless lav mic, and I can even mix-minus her into my music making and headphones so she can hear what I’m doing. A personal podcast date if you will when we can’t be together. We don’t do it much. I occasionally make some uTube videos so I’ll use that as well.
Bluetooth from my phone or tablet for just listening around my apartment through my monitors, although if I’m exploring old radio through Radioooo or internet archives I can always just record real quick into the Rode.
How I use the double host is having an iPad and my Mac Mini hooked up so audio can be routed back and forth, tempo & transport sync is handled through Link. Or two iPads, say one with Drambo routed into the second one with a master FX like Turnado etc. Both mounted on VESA arms so it’s like a Minority Report style finger orgy.
Currently my MPCKeys goes into 3/4 of the rode (programmed as a stereo channel so one physical fader controls the L & R), then a voice mic on 1 and an instrument mic on 2, with Ableton and iPad (using the Digitak as an audio interface & extra sampler/drum machine).
You can record and sample here and there, sound design and route stuff to and fro, send out from the MPC on it’s 3/4 into the DT/iPad to effect/resample and sample back in to the MPC, and/or the DAW…
The current hybrid setup, where I can fire up the hardware separate from the PC and still jam and record, send stuff all around, is fun.
I’m lucky in that I am more productive with a very slow workflow when trying to complete a song. A quick workflow is great for me to explore ideas and for jams for the sake of jamming. I have found as a hobbyist that slowing down and putting more overall effort into fewer total elements to create music makes my results better for the most part.
Sampling specific - even just trying multiple times chopping a sample I’ve gathered when I don’t like the initial result can often yield something better if I stick with it. If not, it’s still a better learning experience through my failure then bailing on the sample early.
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I’m not sure I have a favourite sampler workflow, but this thread and a few recent posts elsewhere has got me thinking about a slightly different strategy for when I rejig my setup next.
I’ve currently got the all in one midi / audio everything connected setup. I’m also pretty keen on the separate stations idea of more focused smaller setups.
But what I’m thinking I will try next is a combo of three stations:
- a sampling / sound design station - analogue synths/drums, FX, internet audio, iPad. Simply for crafting and capturing sounds into the Blackbox
- a sequencing/arranging station - moving the Blackbox here as playback device - sequencing from digitone, qy700, blackbox itself - recording into DAW
- DAW station - fine tuning arrangements, adding played synth/instrument lines not captured during sampling, etc
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my favorite sampler workflow is no samplers 
Sampling into TX16W at 15khz for character, (sometimes also crossloopfades and play it as chords) into Digitakt and sequencing everything incl analog bass from BSII and extra stuff from Digitone!
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