Writing Lyrics

[sleepside]

Like Holon, I read and try to dissect what is happening at a craft level: when do turns happen in the lyrics and what do they look like, how do the melody/harmony/rhythm support the words (and vice versa)

When I start, I set a form/rhyme scheme/# of bars. Often I’ll have a basic chord progression before starting, but not much more. Then I’ll play around with words until I hit a line or set of lines I like. Helps to sing your lyrics aloud, even if you don’t have a melody yet, even if you’re mumbling, even if you hate your voice.

I don’t reach for the toolbox until I get stuck. Some bits from the toolbox:

• Notes emphasized in the melody and words emphasized in the lyrics should line up (same for dramatic underemphasis)
• Plosives (p, b, t, d, g, k) and sibilants (s, sh, z) are very percussive. They should land where you’d put a drum
• Can you pack more meaning into a line with word choice? In “Hyperballad,” “I go through all this” implies a more specific feeling than “I do all this” would
• If it’s hard to fit your words into one line, simplify (or break into multiple lines)
• Abstract lines and thoughts need a personal anchor. Why is your narrator singing about love, or death, or whatever now?

[percussionboy]

Going back to the OP, my first question would be, “Do you actually want to write lyrics?” Like, “want to” for the sake of enjoying the artform of putting words to music, vs. wanting to make vocal music and needing lyrics as a component of that.

Collaboration seems to be a little under-recommended on the forum, but this is a perfect example of where it can be both easier and better to find a lyricist, unless you actually would enjoy slowly turning yourself into a good lyricist. Some great, great music has been made in many genres by songwriting duos.

fwiw

[monquixote]

I think this is insightful.

I don’t really care about lyrics either in songs I’ve been involved with or when I listen to them.

It’s more that sometimes I was to write a rock song and rock songs have vocals which requires lyrics.

The song I’m working on at the moment I’m having great fun writing harmony parts for example.

I would love a writing partner. My history pre having children was always writing in bands and learning to write entire songs myself has been a huge learning experience.

So far I haven’t found anyone who wants to collaborate.

[sleepside]

@monquixote

I would love a writing partner. My history pre having children was always writing in bands and learning to write entire songs myself has been a huge learning experience.

So far I haven’t found anyone who wants to collaborate.

You’ve been doing a good job already, but if you’d like and you give me enough runway, I can try playing Bernie Taupin for a song

(It won’t hurt my feelings if you say no)

[monquixote]

Yeah I’d be up for a collab

Would you rather have some music to write lyrics to or just write some lyrics?

[sleepside]

Nice!

I’d prefer to have some music to start. Basic chord progression would be good enough, or whatever other bare bones for the verse-chorus/A-B sections you have

[KingDuppy]

The one thing I would not suggest doing is reading Jeff Tweedy’s book about how to write a song. What a total waste of time. Much better advice in this thread.

[KingDuppy]

There’s always the tried and true method of nicking a line you like from someone else and then building something new around it.

[monquixote]

I read it and didn’t write a song.

I don’t really like Wilco so I don’t know what I was expecting

[percussionboy]

@KingDuppy

The one thing I would not suggest doing is reading Jeff Tweedy’s book about how to write a song. What a total waste of time

detour: on songwriting

My working theory is that songwriting is the one human activity that can’t be learned from a book. If you love songs, you will learn to play and sing other people’s songs, and then eventually start trying to write your own, using the musical vocabulary you’ve soaked up.

When my life revolved around playing drums, I went through playing in like 12 different songwriters’ bands. None of them got famous, but each one had written at least one good song. And none of them had read a fucking songwriting book, or taken a songwriting course, or paid to have their songs critiqued.

If you want to write songs, songs will come out of you sooner or later.

[KingDuppy]

I think it’s also that most people who are really good at something aren’t particularly good at explaining why they’re any good at it, because they don’t actually know. They can’t tell you how they do it well because to them it’s just the the way it comes out.

My wife and I call it the Maradona Problem, because at some point we noticed that the best soccer players tend to make bad coaches.

I think it’s because their advice tends to boil down to “go out there and be awesome, like I was.” Which isn’t that helpful if you’re not at that level already.

[sleepside]

@percussionboy

My working theory is that songwriting is the one human activity that can’t be learned from a book

The only one? I half-agree, you don’t need books or classes to learn to write. They won’t teach you what you like and don’t like in music.

But books are good for sharing bits of craft. “Here’s a technique, here are some examples of how it’s been used, now go apply it.” I like books for building the toolkit.

[percussionboy]

@KingDuppy

most people who are really good at something aren’t particularly good at explaining why they’re any good at it, because they don’t actually know. They can’t tell you how they do it well because to them it’s just the the way it comes out.

My wife and I call it the Maradona Problem, because at some point we noticed that the best soccer players tend to make bad coaches.

I think it’s because their advice tends to boil down to “go out there and be awesome, like I was.” Which isn’t that helpful if you’re not at that level already.

That was certainly my experience with instrument teachers. It was rare and priceless to find someone who was a great player and a great teacher.

@sleepside

books are good for sharing bits of craft. “Here’s a technique, here are some examples of how it’s been used, now go apply it.” I like books for building the toolkit.

That makes sense. The only reason I’ve shyed away from it is that whenever I’ve tried a songwriting book, the techniques in the books take me too much into my head, and away from my intuition, which is what writes 90% of the song. All I know and all I’ve seen so far from others is that you get a scrap of a lyrical or musical idea, record it before it’s forgotten (even if you doubt its quality), then keep revisiting the compost pile of song ideas until some existing idea sparks another idea… rinse and repeat. I only problem-solve (“What are all the words that rhyme with rump?”) if I get stuck.

FWIW, I think most people starting out would do well to just write songs, over and over, write as well as they can, and understand they might hate the results for a while. And sometimes beginner’s mind finds gems. In any case, doing it usually teaches you how to do it, if you pay attention.

But of course, YMMV. Also, I’m not a pro, and maybe pros have tricks to keep producing content.

[monquixote]

I sort of half agree with you.

A lot of the books about writing lyrics specifically are based on the “Object writing” paradigm which I don’t find helpful and of the famous artists who endorse it like John Mayer I don’t tend to like the lyrics they write.

That said I’ve definitely benefitted in the music part of my song writing from tutorials showing me how to do specific things that have broadened my horizons. I can’t say I’ve ever been inspired by a lyric tutorial or book though.

I think the single most important thing I’ve learned is that most of the people who are true greats treat it like a job. “Inspiration finds you working” is one of my favourite quotes. You can’t just sit there and expect the apple to fall on your head you have to be trying stuff.

[percussionboy]

@monquixote

I’ve definitely benefitted in the music part of my song writing from tutorials showing me how to do specific things that have broadened my horizons.

Understood.

@monquixote

I think the single most important thing I’ve learned is that most of the people who are true greats treat it like a job. “Inspiration finds you working” is one of my favourite quotes. You can’t just sit there and expect the apple to fall on your head you have to be trying stuff.

I’ve always wondered if I should try that approach. Some great novelists have a routine of writing their latest book for x hours daily, or until they’ve finished x pages. Maybe having a structure like that is freeing, even if it takes discipline.

[NoodleSoup]

lyrics don’t always
need to rhyme.

[KingDuppy]

I’ve said it here before, but the way my poetry teacher put it stayed with me.

The hardest part of writing is getting the seat of your pants into the seat of your chair.

Or as Hal Hartley said, “Opportunity will gladly step aside and make room for you to pass it by.”

[monquixote]

Couldn’t agree more

One of the things that Weekly Beats has done for me has been that because I need to get a track finished by the end of the week I’ve been pushing though and finishing stuff that I othewise would have given up on and the result has been in many cases ending up with something. which I’m really pleased with. It just shows you have to do the work and mine the gold out of the idea.

It rarely falls into your lap.

[brisket]

For what little anyone’s advice on writing is worth, here’s mine: be specific. Bad lyrics are usually vague lyrics. Trying too hard for ‘universality’ makes lyrics vague. Don’t write about ‘fear’, describe the feeling of your teeth crumbling into ash. Don’t write about ‘lust’, describe the actually existing possessions you would give up for an evening with ____. The more concrete nouns, the better. This is not to be confused with avoiding metaphors - but make your metaphors as real as concrete, too.

[Azzarole]

I don’t think I write particularly great lyrics but they’re also not absolutely terrible. And I‘ve written quite a few over the last 15 years. Here’s how I approach it, maybe you find some parts helpful.

When listening to music, I‘m always melody first, lyrics second. So I first have to come up with a melody. For that to happen, I need to be in a room where I can sing loudly. Preferably with others to jam with, otherwise while my own loops are playing.

I then start to sing to find a melody and rhythm/cadence that fits the music. I sometimes just sing without words (ooh, aah), but most of the time, I intuitively sing words that somewhat fit the melody and cadence I‘m singing. I have a staple of standard phrases or words I often use in these situations (like “you don’t see how I fall” or “by the time you knew, I was there”), but often it’s also more specific words that come up in that moment.

Over the course of writing a song, I will try to refine what I came up with during these sessions. Most of the time, I end up with lyrics where some of the words or phrases from the jam stay or are just changed a little bit, complemented by new words and phrases. Sometimes I change everything and none of the words from the jam stay.

I try to stay true to the sound of the words from the jam because they tend to fit the music. So when replacing words and phrases, I try to find words that sound similar.

Now how about meaning, you might ask. When listening to music, I like lyrics that sound nice but are universal enough to mean a lot of different things to different people. So I’m striving for that as well.

In practice, this means that most of the time, parts of my lyrics mean something specific to me, while others are more vibes based. That might be a bit lazy, and part of the reason is that I’m not good at writing lyrics about very specific real life things that happened (to me) in a straight way. But I’m also convinced that just like the music itself, my lyrics come from a place of subconscious emotions and feelings that are more interesting than what comes up when I’m only in my head. So I trust the direction that comes from deep within me during jam sessions and then I trust words and phrases that just pop up when refining these lyrics. I will tidy it up eventually and might give it a bit more meaning or direction, but I also try not to overthink it.

I still try to have lyrics that are coherent, and when I’m writing something that’s more of a traditional (rock) song, I also try to tell some kind of evolving story, where parts of the lyrics are in dialogue with each other. Which means they signal a twist or change, a new way to look at what has been said before etc. Sometimes, all it takes for that is to change one word for the final stretch, sometimes it means writing a whole part that’s a direct rejection of something that’s been said earlier.

Some people mentioned earlier that it’s good to have a repository of words to work with and I agree. Reading fiction is the most important way to build that for me personally. Oftentimes I look at the lyrics I came up with and notice words or themes that I stumbled upon in a book I’ve been reading over the last weeks. Listening to podcasts like “Radiolab” also helps (and might make for sample fodder). I also have two giant notes on my Iphone that contain interesting words or potential song titles/band names, and another file that contains phrases or themes I stumble upon while reading or thinking that sound interesting.

The biggest revelation to me was finally writing in my own native language (German). I almost exclusively listen to music with English lyrics and so that’s what I’ve gravitated towards naturally. I just recently tried to write German lyrics because I don’t like most music with German lyrics. But it turns out my German lyrics are just so much better (imo). Which shouldn’t come as a surprise, because I’m just a lot more eloquent in my native language and know way more words and their nuances. Most of my actual life is also lived in German, and so there are more things that might pop up. So to anyone who’s not a native English speaker, try writing in your own language before rejecting it.

There’s one song from an upcoming album of my band that might illustrate the process I’ve just described. It’s in German, so I can’t explain it in nuances with examples. But the basics are that we had a jam in which I came up with lyrics and melody for a verse, chorus and bridge. On the final song, the melody is mostly the same because the vibe during that session was incredible and most of the core melodies of the final song emerged immediately. The theme of the song also came from that session: it’s about a weird uncle you admired as a kid, with a passage describing a ride in his car. I also came up with some specific lyrics: his glove compartment smelled of something, and the narrator wanted him to give more to them (“Bitte, bitte, gib mir noch mehr von dir” – “Please, please, give me more from you”). There was also some tension already present, the narrator wanted him to open his windows and let in some fresh air.

It took us several months to refine and craft the final song – while the core elements from the jam were great, we struggled to nail the arrangement and mix. Likewise, the lyrics also still needed a lot of work: the core themes and some specific lyrics were already there, and the line “bitte, bitte, gib mir noch mehr von dir” was so evocative and had such a great melody that I knew it needed to stay exactly like this. But I needed to fill in a lot of the blanks (like what was in his glove compartment), and also needed to define a bit more what that abstract tension was about. I eventually added a second verse that plays out a lot later than the first one. I was inspired by a line I had written down in one of my long note files long before that song existed (“Weihnachten 2020, zu Fuß zum Getränkemarkt” – “Christmas 2020, by foot to the bottle-o” is the best translation I can come up with). It felt fitting because it’s very specific, yet could mean so many things and is open to interpretation. Nobody would walk to buy a lot of drinks – did the uncle lose his driver’s license? Is he alone and thus doesn’t need as many drinks so carrying them won’t be a problem? Is he an alcoholic? Or did we walk there together because it was Covid and we weren’t allowed to drive in a car together? I also made the tension more specific, mentioning that he’s full of scorn and hate despite having a save retirement pension. Maybe he’s that cranky uncle you’re forced to sit through Christmas, who used to be cool and alternative, but now he’s voting right wing. Anyways, the narrator’s made his decision that unlike during childhood, they don’t want something from the uncle anymore (“Bitte bitte, gib mir nichts mehr von dir” – “Please, please, don’t give me anything more from you”).