Workflow: helping tame the machines

OHEXOH · 2014-09-26T09:40:12.000Z

Hey all

I recently acquired the OT completing the Dark Trinity (yeah!) and I’m looking to fully move away from Ableton (at least for ideas / initial composition) and use just the hardware.

But, it’s a lot to keep on top of. Sometimes I’ll focus on one box, then move to another and so on. But overall it feels like there’s a lot to keep on top of (naturally).

At the same time, after a days play when I come back my kits / sounds / projects are a little bit disorganised to say the least.

So, my question is—what are your best workflow tips both jamming live and then making sense out of stuff you make and taking it onwards.

THXOX

jamrod · 2014-09-26T13:00:07.000Z

For me, it’s really important to commit to a setup and stick to it. (I have OT and AR, FWIW) For a while I was buying and selling different synths and playing around like that, but it was always annoying to me that unless I recorded how I configured everything - MIDI channels, routing, etc. - results weren’t repeatable. So I’ve wound up sticking to a simpler setup, and usually just recording any external audio directly into the OT after I sequence it. I did use a Minitaur for a while as a dedicated bass box on every track.

When I work with just the OT and AR, I match up banks. Basically, half a bank on the AR = a full bank on the OT. That’s the easiest way to make sure I play the right patterns together. For me personally, having two Elektron boxes going is already overload as far as live playing is concerned, so I’m not likely to go beyond that for now. I still make my best stuff on a single box.

dubathonic · 2014-09-26T16:10:49.000Z

Working with multiple snapshots/projects compounds the problem. For me the answer has been to keep a notebook. Every jam I do, no matter how small, gets an entry. A bit anal but it takes all of two minutes to jot down the patterns, kit names, snaps and a few basic performance notes.

Like Jamrod, I still get some of my best results composing completely or mostly on a single instrument, and working others in minimally &/or later. But I’m also trying to turn the OG trinity into a single live instrument, and this means I’m not only dealing with finding patterns and remembering performance tweaks, but also feeling out how the three instruments’ machines and signal chains work together for best effect. I spend a lot of time making notes on that stuff as well, and bookmarking useful forum threads that I reread on slow days, cos there’s simply too much to keep in my head.

I feel like a scientist sometimes.

Tornfrayed · 2014-09-26T16:22:10.000Z

""dubathonic"":

Working with multiple snapshots/projects compounds the problem. For me the answer has been to keep a notebook. Every jam I do, no matter how small, gets an entry. A bit anal but it takes all of two minutes to jot down the patterns, kit names, snaps and a few basic performance notes.

Like Jamrod, I still get some of my best results composing completely or mostly on a single instrument, and working others in minimally &/or later. But I’m also trying to turn the OG trinity into a single live instrument, and this means I’m not only dealing with finding patterns and remembering performance tweaks, but also feeling out how the three instruments’ machines and signal chains work together for best effect. I spend a lot of time making notes on that stuff as well, and bookmarking useful forum threads that I reread on slow days, cos there’s simply too much to keep in my head.

I feel like a scientist sometimes.

Create like a child; edit like a scientist.

Cannonball_Swandive · 2016-10-28T12:27:23.507Z

I would love to see one of these done. It would be nice to get some different takes on the interplay.

krusty4president · 2015-02-02T09:52:58.000Z

+1! I’d love to see a workflow series on the dark trinity. Would promote sales also, right Elektron?
Please let Cenk do some magic here

JuanSOLO · 2015-02-02T16:15:18.000Z

I would like to see something like this from various people and maybe get some new ideas.

I’m still trying to figure it all out.
The A4 is my latest box, still trying to get used to it.
Funny thing is how much I like some of the kicks and snares, it makes me re-evaluate how rhythm duties are handled between RYTM and the A4.

Currently I try to keep the A4 doing things the other 2 cant.
Analog Polyphony i.e. chords, and arpeggiated sequences that can be easily transposed. I also use the external input for my SlimPhatty. I use the CV out to a few fx.

The Rytm pretty much just does what it does best, drums.

I use the OT to sequence the SlimPhatty.
The A4 and RYTM go into A B, and C D.
I use a Thru track and a Neighbor track for each, on part one.
Scene A is for the A4, Scene B RYTM.
1 OT track for flex sampling,
2 for Static playback,
and a Master Track.
Part 4 I have been using to replace the Statics with Flex machines for re-sampling ease.
I use the Cue out to re-sample all things.

Since the A4 has a huge range of sounds, I find that many things I used to play as samples from the OT, I just do on the A4.
I try to keep the OT sampling to reflect something the other boxes cant do.

Sometimes I feel like having all three boxes makes each one stripped down to simpler tasks. This is a good thing I think, but it screws with my head thinking each one should be pushed to it’s max capabilities.

JuanSOLO · 2015-09-29T20:48:21.000Z

The AR and A4 resemble each others workflow a bit, along with a similar OS.
The OT offers very different stuff, and the OS is much more expansive.

Because of that, I highly recommend just using the Octatrack alone for a few weeks. Get used to it and it’s differences.
Load some samples in it and play around and experiment.
Get some experience saving projects, and making a mess without worry of keeping track of anything.

I find having all 3 boxes can be tedious to manage sometimes.

There’s lot’s of ways to hook up these three boxes.
Right now I prefer running the OT as master > AR > A4
A4 plugs into A B on the OT, and the AR to C D.
I use Thru machines and Neighbor machines to add lots of effects to the AR and A4 with Trk 1- 4
Sampling and re-sampling are handled on Trk 5, 6, 7.
8 as master.

So many ways though.

Groof · 2015-09-29T21:31:35.000Z

I have the same setup ( Rytm&A4 into OT ins) but the " Hipper sensitive" inputs of the Octa and the massive punch of the Rytm drives me crazy…

FreeFall · 2015-09-29T23:51:14.000Z

There really is no ‘best’ way to connect them, beyond the obvious ins and outs. The OT can be so many different things, you’ll find that the way you use it depends on what you want to achieve or experiment with.

I agree that it can be tedious to have all three boxes running at the same time. So much to keep track of. It’s more freeing to keep things simple as you learn the OT, and you’ll get less confused while you’re still trying to figure out how it works!

I’ve been using the MNM and OT together lately. Just sampling all sorts of pads, squelches, bass, etc etc etc. A big part of using the OT is filling it with samples, and if you’re a purist (like me) you have to fill it with you own sounds, and that takes forever! Once you get a good pile of samples on the OT, you might not even need to have any other gear connected with it to create some killer music.

The OT will challenge you to find a way to use it. There are many.

dave_angel · 2015-09-30T01:57:50.000Z

We have it connected as follows -

OT sends clock to both AR + AK (OT OUT>AR IN/AR OUT>AK IN)

Also as a result of the OT being the start of the midi chain we can then send extra LFO data to either machine, and arpeggiate channels on the Rytm using the OT’s sequencer.

I have the AR going back into a thru machine on the OT. And use 1 track on the OT for recording loops of anything playing through the OT and to enable me to be able to use the crossfader trick to transition between our songs. I then use the rest of OT’s audio tracks for mostly sampling + loop manipulation.

My band mate handles the AK and so we don’t route that through the OT (although you could decide too)

You could also send just particular tracks of the AR into the AK, p-lock it; and then send I t on to the OT to further p-lock if you wish!

As other guys have mentioned, it’s so worth just focusing on the OT for a good week or so. As until then you won’t have a full vision of how much you can do with the thing.

Once you understand more and more of its possibilities, it’ll become clearer how you want them to work together. It’s starting to for us after, like you, getting the AR + AK first.

Re: organisation across the machines; we have the same bank on all machines for each song. Finding it fine, so far to keep a track of the projects with this method. You could set it up so that all machines change pattern/bank at the same time if it suits. We’re making techno and there is another member playing MnM, so we opt to change banks/patterns independently of each other. But as an individual it may be beneficial to do it all from one machine.

One thing I’ve tried to do on the octatrack is have the same scene settings on each song that way I know that if I want to low pass filter everything playing thru the OT it’s always assigned to the same scene button.

At first I was making random scene locks, dependent to the track. But I’d advise (at least for a live setup using the trinity, less so for studio as may not want as much continuity of settings) to have a method to your scene arrangement. As otherwise I found I’d open a song and wouldn’t be sure what each scene does.

s3kn0tr0n1c · 2015-09-30T07:36:31.000Z

""dave_angel"":

You could set it up so that all machines change pattern/bank at the same time if it suits. We’re making techno and there is another member playing MnM, so we opt to change banks/patterns independently of each other. But as an individual it may be beneficial to do it all from one machine.

Mmm…tips on doing this.

Which unit master ?
I have OT and AR and think this would be a great workflow for me (new user btw)

Right now I have AR as master midi clock.

yentz · 2015-09-30T08:22:32.000Z

Literaly the same situation here.
Just wanted a proper drum machine as the plugins don’t really do the job.
Bought the rytm, liked the workflow, now having a4 and ot as well.
Since I am very new to these machines either I am still in the process of making my mind up regarding the best way to use.

So far I am doing it like this:

Audio:

rytm and a4 go into live using overbridge.
ot’s cue out and main out go into my soundcard (multiface)

additionally there is an ipad going into the multi face.

from the multiface two outs go into the ot in a b.

So everything goes into ableton for mixing purposes and can easily be routed into the ot for samping using the total mix of the hammerfall soundcard.

in case there will ever be a live situation I will probably go for a behringer x18 or a mackie dl1608 which both allow similar routing flexibility.

Midi:

At the moment the clock gets generated by the octatrack. From there a midi splitter to split the clock (and midi signals) from the ot to the other stuff.

The clock runs fine so far and I haven"t had any problems (yet?) which were not ok to be tolerated in a live situation which is fine for me so far. So no multi clock at the moment.

I also ordered a midi event processor as the ot is not ideal dealing with program changes and this way I can send them whenever I want.

Still have to learn quite a lot regarding the octatrack but I think this way everything regarding song structure, pattern changes etc are controlled bby the octatrack which leaves the ar and a4 for thing like un/muting, scenes, performances etc to keep the whole thing playful and fun.

I am thinking of routing the ableton master out back into the ot in c d , processing in the ot, signal to ot main out and from there to my speakers (of course sending all other audio from the ot to its cue out. so i would have a master effect processor. Not sure whether this is soooo interesting for me but I will try

krusty4president · 2015-09-30T11:10:27.000Z

""yentz"":

Literaly the same situation here.
Just wanted a proper drum machine as the plugins don’t really do the job.
Bought the rytm, liked the workflow, now having a4 and ot as well.
Since I am very new to these machines either I am still in the process of making my mind up regarding the best way to use.

So far I am doing it like this:

Audio:

rytm and a4 go into live using overbridge.
ot’s cue out and main out go into my soundcard (multiface)

additionally there is an ipad going into the multi face.

from the multiface two outs go into the ot in a b.

So everything goes into ableton for mixing purposes and can easily be routed into the ot for samping using the total mix of the hammerfall soundcard.

in case there will ever be a live situation I will probably go for a behringer x18 or a mackie dl1608 which both allow similar routing flexibility.

Midi:

At the moment the clock gets generated by the octatrack. From there a midi splitter to split the clock (and midi signals) from the ot to the other stuff.

The clock runs fine so far and I haven"t had any problems (yet?) which were not ok to be tolerated in a live situation which is fine for me so far. So no multi clock at the moment.

I also ordered a midi event processor as the ot is not ideal dealing with program changes and this way I can send them whenever I want.

Still have to learn quite a lot regarding the octatrack but I think this way everything regarding song structure, pattern changes etc are controlled bby the octatrack which leaves the ar and a4 for thing like un/muting, scenes, performances etc to keep the whole thing playful and fun.

I am thinking of routing the ableton master out back into the ot in c d , processing in the ot, signal to ot main out and from there to my speakers (of course sending all other audio from the ot to its cue out. so i would have a master effect processor. Not sure whether this is soooo interesting for me but I will try

I am struggling to get a good setup with the dark trinity + DAW where I can route all audio back to Octatrack and resample. Could someone recommend a setup for this gear where I almost instantly can sample audio from both DAW and A4 and AR. I find myself spending half the time reconnecting cables…
What I have is:
A4
AR
OT
AK
DAW
Focusrite 2i4
Mixer Yamaha MG82CX (8 channel)

twardowski · 2015-09-30T11:17:28.000Z

did any of you guys consider patching the elektron boxes the other way around? i mean putting the AR at the end of the chain, so that drums stand out and everything, including the OT-mangled samples get compressed in the AR.

djadonis206 · 2015-09-30T13:14:56.000Z

Get a midi merge box, 1 in and 4 outs. Use the OT midi sequencer to program beats on the AR and everything else on the A4. It’s pretty simple.

De_wouzer · 2015-09-30T13:34:36.000Z

I use A4 AR (AR = master) and OT
A4 and AR go into OT
I only use OT as a mixer hub with x fader Transition Trick and for some fx like reverb and delay.
I make my songs in AR and A4 (I make loops with macro fx (perf knobs in A4 and Perf and Scenes in AR) I can play and tweak and make tention with it

With the OT, I have some tracks left… soon it will be time to make loops and sample sounds… but I still have to learn that.

From next week I will not be with my gear. I decided to take my OT with me to learn it. It is pretty deep and a different workflow. The AR and the A4 are really simple to me to use… although I am learning more and more about synthesis right now.

JuanSOLO · 2015-09-30T15:44:56.000Z

""s3kn0tr0n1c"":

[quote=“dave_angel”]You could set it up so that all machines change pattern/bank at the same time if it suits. We’re making techno and there is another member playing MnM, so we opt to change banks/patterns independently of each other. But as an individual it may be beneficial to do it all from one machine.

Mmm…tips on doing this.

Which unit master ?
I have OT and AR and think this would be a great workflow for me (new user btw)

Right now I have AR as master midi clock. [/quote]
I’m going off the top of my head right now but I’ll try an point you in the right direction.

I use the OT as master, but this could be done with either machine as master.
Basically you need to tell the OT to send program changes on a specific channel.
Tell the other 2 machines to receive program changes on that channel.
Once thats done selecting banks and patterns on the OT will be mirrored by the other 2. You dont need to p-lock program change numbers or anything.
Hope that helps.

yentz · 2015-09-30T19:05:19.000Z

""krusty4president"":

I am struggling to get a good setup with the dark trinity + DAW where I can route all audio back to Octatrack and resample.

Obviously this really depends on the I/O of your soundcard.
In case you are using over bridge you can define a cue out on live and route every channel you want to it. depending on your sound card just hardwire the second (cue) out to the octatrack.
Alternatively just route within your sound card. I am not sure whether every soundcard can do this but mine does allow to route audio freely between inputs and outputs.
Without a computer I would want to use a mixer. Any kind of decent mixer allows sends which could be used to feed the ot.

vitek · 2015-09-30T21:41:25.000Z

Wow, such a blast, I haven’t expected this … many thanks for your views!

This pretty much confirms what I thought, using OT as a hub and eventually sometimes even sequence AR/A4 from OT. Btw can OT do polyphony within one track, or how does it works if I want to sequence chords?

I’m still kind of struggling if I want to have program changes in sync, since I sort of want to jam, rather than program the machines to do the same thing again, but it might be useful to switch this on/off. Is there some smart way how to change this without digging in the menus?

I was learning AR/A4 separately as well, took me like two weeks to feel confident with each of them, next month I’m probably leaving the country for a month, so I might take OT only