Exactly. Thats why I keep the old MS20.
I fully understand and appreciate the collector mentality, of wanting the original for its connection to history. I can even see how this would inspire someone to feel more connected to making music, and the instrument can provide unique inspiration.
Definitely get eye-rolly when people opine about the unique sound of the original vs. samples/clones, and how that justifies added expense, as if the difference in sound quality is meaningful in its own right. Itās like wine enthusiasts talking about how microclimactic differences in the same wine region confer special qualities to the grapes from one hillside vs another. Meanwhile, top wine tasters rate the same bottle differently when presented it a second time during the same tasting. Itās all a bit silly.
commodity fetishism, probably
This sentence is incredibly hilarious for some reason
itās important to remember that a lot of people have been doing this for many years, and bought some of such machines before their prices were insane. I bought a 909 about 15 years ago for $700. most of my vintage gear I bought over a decade ago, and theyāre going for double the price I paid or more now. Iāll bet most of the time you see a producer featured/interviewed/etc and they have one of these machines (or something else crazy), theyāve been doing this long enough to either have purchased when prices were better, know enough people doing music that they found a deal, or theyāre successful enough to afford the high prices.
nowā¦ who is buying these machines these days? because clearly people are and the prices continue to go up. Iād say very likely itās mostly collectors; people middle-age or later that now have the money and stability to purchase machines theyāve always wanted, re-living their youth, etc.
Iād say more and more youāre going to see clones (B or otherwise) and the Roland digital versions in famous producersā studios, as time goes on. the prices are just too insane and obviously new generations of producers enter the genre all the time; eventually thereās just less people who are new and feature-worthy that were making music when these machines werenāt insanely priced.
any chance I can talk you into building me one? (only kinda-sorta kidding)
Iād go for a Dinsync over originals every time.
But regarding samples/8S/tr08/09 vs originals, one thing often over looked; analog pots have considerably greater resolution against MIDI 0-128.
You can of course get all the voices to sound pretty spot on A/Bing but itās when adjusting parameters live that the 909 shines and the lower resolution shows here considerably IMO.
Iām looking forward to MIDI 2.0 as this will change that due to increased agreed resolution which really could make the difference between the modern digital remakes and the originals even smaller.
Different strokes for different folks. If it makes some one happy, than who are we to judge?
muscle memory
the harsh truth iām finding is the adapted question:
makes me wince to think how many of these are just silently sleeping and corroding in a box somewhereā¦ nice nest eggs tho.
why? i think due to original components.
because modern replicas made of modern components do have different character.
If I use an original 808 in a track or use samples, where exactly is the difference?
The difference is that its history. Itās like an antique chair. Itās far from perfect, but you love it. Thats the difference.
In the end all sounds end as files. That canāt be the thing then.
Well if you keep driving that 1972 Mini youāll probably die in one as crashing with a MINI will probably result in just that.
Maybe they are creating a Museum. These Museum studios are becoming very popular. As long as you can afford it go for it. Look Mom No Computer has just opened a Museum of old hardware.
I think the most common things are:
- Marketing, Roland and others keep referring to the OG in order to sell something new.
- Hipster value, having an OG and showcasing it on Instagram makes you the man.
- Extremely overpriced. Itās expensive therefor it must be the best.
Imo all the OGās sound so different from each other that I think buying the RD-8 is a far better option. And Iām a hardcore Uli basher so that should count for something I think
Thatās its greatest safety feature. You know that if you crash, you die, so you try reaaaaaalllly hard not to crash.
When Issigonis designed the Mini, he proritised the driving experience over trivial concerns like comfort or āsafetyā features. Basically, driving a mini is so uncomfortable that you canāt possibly lose focus, unlike all these other clowns driving around in their mobile living rooms half asleep crashing into everything.
There are probably hundreds of different reasons why one would want an original . Ranging from simply wanting to use it , sound , hating software , disliking clones , nostalgy , collector , owning a piece of music history , investment , prestige , making your own samples , putting it in your living room on an altar with a picture of Jeff Mills above itā¦etc ā¦ But one thing many people got wrong is that no object is overpriced and no price is crazy ā¦ The market always dictates . And prices will go down once the offer is greater than the demand . What i find crazy on the other hand is why Roland never tried to make a proper clone (multiple outputs , exact layout / visual copy ,ā¦ ) themselves ??? I gues the profit margin on cheap plastic digital clones is way bigger , but still ā¦ pretty sure they would have sold like sweet cakes .
That what Iām always worried about, crashing because someone else isnāt paying attention.
Iāll play devils advocate here by saying the TR-909 is very over priced, it is much easier to sample convincingly due to 4 of the sounds being samples, and the stability of the analogue sounds. Indeed lots of classic tracks which appear to have a 909 in them are in fact often samples.
But, playing a 909 is not easily replicated, youād need a lot of samples, some knobs and a lot of work to set it all up, and then it still would not be the same, so this playability/physicality probably accounts for its high price.
Also Jomox and B versions are nowhere near accurate enough for some people, they add things that were not in the original and the core sound is different, ergo pointless in that respect.
The replicas are a bit of a niche market, you need to be fairly skilled at building and be prepared to spend the time, or pay a trusted builder, at which point you are very close to TR-909 money anyway. The TR-09 is pretty accurate but no separate outputs and too tiny for some, the TR-8s is probably the closest experience once set up, reasonably priced, but does not have the look and feel, which for some people is important.
Also, much as I love vintage drum machines more often than not I will use samples, for some applications samples are in fact ābetterā but not all. A TR-606 is a very lively machine in both operation and sound, none of the clones sound or behave exactly as it does, and there are lots of intricate and subtle interactions within the sounds. Personally I think even today they are still fairly affordable and slightly under valued when compared to its stable mates.
There is a thing on old gear.
On my side I like the idea to play on something which was made before I was born. Itās like a time travel.
All those scratch on the surface, the way it look. The fact you enjoy the beast. And those old led, slider and sometimes noticeable noise crack.
Sure sample can do the job in lots of case.
But your brain wonāt see it like this.
I completely understand people wanting to drive an old car from the 1960 or 1970.
Not daily but just for the joy of doing it.
And yes it cost more, and the reason to do that could be seen as dumb.