Why is there no different timing on different tracks

Uturunku · 2014-11-11T15:37:06.000Z

""udenjoe"":

Can you explain what is meant by different timing?

By hardware design we have only 16 steps (physical trig buttons) x 4 pages (changes using scale setup button) = 64 steps. But sometimes it is needed to have more than 64 steps per pattern (e.g. for the long chords progression, evolving pads etc.). BTW, even old Korg ESX1 has 8 pages with 16 steps which is equals to 512 steps. Workaround for this “issue” is tempo multiplier, which allows to change playback speed and get more long duration of pattern but with reducing resolution of the trigs grid.
The issue with A4 is in fact that in OT you have possibility to select independent tempo multiplier for each track but in A4 tempo multiplier affects all tracks simultaneously.
If this feature will be implemented for A4 in the same way as in OT – it would be possible to have e.g. 512 “steps” (by setting multiplier value to 1/8) on the 1st track for evolving long pad with different chords, 16 steps for kick drum on 2nd track, 128 on 3rd track for… and so on…

Probably this feature is not so important for techno-style music, but it’s essential for ambient-like stuff.

avantronica · 2014-11-11T16:06:50.000Z

I’d like this to be available as much as the next man(woman). I reckon some things don’t get included for business reasons or to keep the interface balance simple. It also takes effort and they’re developing other things/overbridge etc. but I tend to think why might some features not be available ! Although the a4 started out as four mono voices, it is different from the OT and AR in that it has voice sharing between tracks and I wonder if this may partly explain why having staggered trigs may make it trickier to have transparent voice stealing, I’m not even sure that thought even stands up tbh. But I do find that many of the frequent feature requests are just implausible rather than omissions as it were. I hope it’s not just that they consider the A4 as a non-percussive type instrument and therefore it wouldn’t benefit from the ability to run a 3/4 behind a 4/4 , I use it more percussively/rhythmically/texturally than as a keys/lead type thing. Anyway I’m +1

biologik · 2014-11-11T16:46:31.000Z

The issue with A4 is in fact that in OT you have possibility to select independent tempo multiplier for each track but in A4 tempo multiplier affects all tracks simultaneously.
If this feature will be implemented for A4 in the same way as in OT – it would be possible to have e.g. 512 “steps” (by setting multiplier value to 1/8) on the 1st track for evolving long pad with different chords, 16 steps for kick drum on 2nd track, 128 on 3rd track for… and so on…

I couldn’t agree more here. A tempo-multiplier per track would be SO helpful!

t · 2014-11-11T17:09:07.000Z

Maybe they left this out because it’s soo easy to set up and use chains to get progressions longer than a single pattern?

barto · 2014-11-11T17:31:05.000Z

such an old topic. why doesnt it have cv ins too? …

biologik · 2014-11-11T17:31:44.000Z

that’s true, but good luck trying to do that live

udenjoe · 2014-11-11T20:04:45.000Z

Thanks for the info! I couldn’t understand the request before.

More track multipliers please!

avantronica · 2014-11-11T20:29:05.000Z

""t"":

Maybe they left this out because it’s soo easy to set up and use chains to get progressions longer than a single pattern?

… But there’d be no way to go faster or to get the triplet layering, then it could also be used in a performance sense too. It’s on the AR (no ?) so it isn’t that theory

djadonis206 · 2014-11-12T05:13:05.000Z

Maybe the guy who coded the multiplier in the OT got fired and took his tech with him

R7 · 2014-11-12T06:03:54.000Z

Individual track multipliers would be amazing.

However, in a post from /mr, an Elektron employee about why the A4 sequencer doesn’t send midi out (my most wanted feature), he said the sequencer doesn’t use midi. He didn’t specify exactly what it does use but I’m assuming some sort of internal digital organization of CV controls. Where the Octatrack uses midi as far as I know since it sends it’s midi information out it must be using midi.

So they don’t really have the same sequencers so individual track multipliers might not be as easy to implement as unfortunate as that is. Even though I’m sure they could implement it if they tried.

I don’t think we’re going to see any new features for any of their products until Overbridge is out.

ello · 2014-11-12T08:03:56.000Z

""R7"":

…I don’t think we’re going to see any new features for any of their products until Overbridge is out.

na, who cares about overbridge until that tempo multiplier (which is exactly the wording i forgot when creating the thread) is added :D…

4thDan · 2018-03-10T09:43:32.903Z

The tempo multiplier on the MKII is set to effect all four tracks and cannot be made specific to each track like in the octatrack (pattern…scale mode…per track setting). Is there any way to work around the problem? I want longer polyrhythms. i know this is a long time problem for the a4, but is there a work around? say i want 3/4x on one and 1x on another

tnussb · 2018-03-10T11:32:38.173Z

Sorry, neither does the feature exists, nor a workaround.

I understand why Elektron keeps such features bound to specific machines (to sell you more than one), but from a user perspective this is completely “shitty”. For many restrictions of the sequencer on a specific machine there is simply no technical reason why to keep it out …

… and even if you own multiple machines from them, it’s also a hassle to always remember which feature is available on which machines. Kind of really sucks …

4thDan · 2018-03-10T23:13:59.850Z

Ah that makes sense. Thanks for the reply. Damn, that’s some bs though

Open_Mike · 2018-03-10T23:55:01.556Z

Has anyone actually bought an Octatrack just to get track scale for the A4, and doesn’t use the A4’s sequencer and only controls it from midi tracks from OT?

4thDan · 2018-03-29T03:23:49.754Z

I don’t know, but that’s what I plan on doing someday, unless that’s a bad idea. I would prefer to use a DAW like Renoise to send clock to the A4 and tinker with automating the patterns in Renoise to make longer polyrhythms, but I’m pretty dumb so that would be quite a feat for me.

What really bothers me is that I use a Rytm to send clock to the A4 with headphones going out of the A4, and I want to record the A4’s output to my laptop, but I can’t just plug in the USB due to no overbridge, and there’s only one headphone jack so I can’t get sound out of it at the moment. The usb on the A4 can send clock (and maybe?) Midi info, as shown on the input Monitor in renoise, but I can’t get out any sound. I don’t want to buy any more $h!t, so I’m just stockpiling songs like an idiot…if I have to buy something like a Zoom recorder or an analog recorder, I want it to be audiophile quality so I don’t end up spending more in the long run. I’m thinking about getting Analog Heat just for the Overbridge to save songs to my laptop, but alas, that’s still more money. Since when did self-expression cost so much???

Open_Mike · 2018-03-29T04:06:00.631Z

Well, I’m not one to say getting an OT is a bad idea, but I have an AR and an OT and I much prefer to use the AR’s internal sequencer than sending it midi tracks from the OT. I wouldn’t buy an OT if I only had an AR just to get track scale and thereby not even using the AR’s sequencer… But that’s me, I don’t know what others would do. Really it’s just my opinion that I don’t think that Elektron didn’t put track scale on all the boxes because they want you to buy an OT for that, but whatever… It’s not as big of a deal as it seems when your on the forum…

I take it you don’t have an audio interface? Most folks with a computer and some high end hardware would consider an audio interface as essential and just get one one way or another. I understand not wanting to spend more money though, I barely have any…

What kind of computer do you have? Your computer might have an 1/8in audio input and a headphone output, in which case you could go AR audio outs–> A4 audio ins, A4 headphone out–>computer audio in, and then plug the headphones into the computer and monitor everything through a DAW.
This isn’t ideal as you’d just get a stereo feed of everything and computers built in converters usually aren’t the greatest, but it’s free or perhaps the cost of a cable at most…

I used to be more into complex timing and technically skilled type music when I was younger. As I grow older I’ve learned to appreciate the intention and meaning put into the music I listen to or make and judge it more by its feeling it gives me than how complex it is… Point is I haven’t explored making polyrhythms on the AR so much, I don’t avoid 4/4 as much as I used to, I like rather it.

Have you been messing with the track lengths at least? There’s not individual scale but there’s individual length, most of the polyrhythms stuff comes out of that and the track scale just adds more. Maybe by combining different track lengths with a master scale of 3/4 or 1/2 could sort of get you the feeling of longer tracks and make the other ones shorter with track length. Maybe try chaining patterns together and then messing with both their track lengths…

Hope this helps, and although I totally get where your coming from, self-expression is one of the last free things we get, expressing yourself through high end modern music gear however costs some buckos for somebody at some point, might not be the user if they were gifted the gear, anything is possible…

Tanburi · 2018-03-29T07:26:40.114Z

I hear the folks who would love to have individual tempo scale on their machines. It’s a useful feature. It’s a quick way to make one or more tracks’ patterns longer (with built-in 3/2 and 3/4 polymeter per-track “presets”) and thus the musical statements have a longer evolution. Maybe the reason only the OT has it is due to those stated above, I don’t know. I have only an OT. And Open Mike is right, if it’s polymeters one is after, the individual step lengths do technically cover that.

4thDan · 2018-03-30T07:01:10.454Z

Thanks for the great reply! The problem is my laptop has a 1/8in audio input that also doubles as a headphone output, so everything is confusing. In other words, there is only one opening for a 1/8in jack on my laptop, but it’s a very good machine. I want to get the Analog Heat to use as my sound card, and hopefully I can plug its USB into my laptop and plug my headphones into the laptop. Can you get sound only using the USB, or do you need to plug in your USB as well as the synth output to get sound out of the DAW? Because if the latter is the case, then I could never use headphones with my laptop, and that would suck.

That bit about how your taste in music creation changes as you get older, appreciating the intention and meaning of it over complexity, sounds like words of wisdom. I guess it’s a young man’s game to get lost in complexity to maybe prove yourself or something, to the music gods or otherwise. I also like making abstract emotional stuff that has nothing to do with polyrhythms; lately I’ve just been into polyrhythms to trip out to them. Every now and then, it feels like some sort of ancient music you’re not supposed to hear or know about, sacred tones outside the bounds of Earth and time, especially with FM sounds grumbling in and out unpredictably. I use track lengths like you said…it’s fun because sometimes you add in one track and it brings the whole thing together, then I get this really tripped out feeling, or you tweak one sound on a forgettable pattern and something unremarkable takes on a totally different dimension. I’ll definitely try those work-arounds you mentioned. A bunch of really good ideas

4thDan · 2018-03-30T07:12:42.201Z

Got polymeters down. There was just one polyrhythm in particular I wanted to mess with that had a specific tempo multiplier to one track (different from the rest). Maybe you could figure out how to get something akin to that by chaining and counting out the equivalent of whatever the tempo multiplier would give you, or something in what Mike said…it just would be way easier to do it on an octatrack