Why I returned my Analog Rytm

Elektron Gear Analog Rytm
1

I am not trying to start a fight here (I know sometimes these posts end up being a mess). I am just sharing my PERSONAL experience. I am doing this for two reasons:

  • I hope someone at Elektron might stumble upon this and maybe take this feedback into account…

  • I hope it might help other people who are considering buying this product

Preamble: I am NOT a live musician (well… I am but I play classical music which is quite another world!). I was planning to use this instrument in my small studio. So many of the live performance features (where the AR excels) were not key for me.

There is a lot to like about the AR. To name a few:

  • The sequencer is fantastic. It feels that there is almost no limits with it.
  • I personally find the user interface really good. It’s straightforward and fast to get where you want to. And the live “tweaking” possibilities are fantastic.

BUT. For me, there were several things that ended up being too annoying. And the thing is: I am not talking about features that “I wish could be added”, but features that are advertised with the product already.

1- The compressor.

I found it extremely hard to use. I was getting tons of clicks and pops all the time when I was trying to use a short release. To be honest I was even wondering if something was wrong with my unit. But it seems I am not the only one having issues with it.

In addition, I was seriously perplex with the sidechain setting. Not being able to route a specific track to the sidechain input was - to me - a strange decision.

2- The pads.

It might be a matter of taste but I found them really hard to use. You do need to tap quite hard to trigger the sound. I could not make a proper (manual) roll with them. I had to do many takes and edit manually afterwards.

3- The line input.

The level is so low… in my experience, it’s impossible to use it without an external amp. In addition, I could not get good results with the compressor on an external source.

NB: I should add that the fact the jacks are stereo instead of mono was extremely frustrating. It’s the only equipment in my studio that is like this (I know, I know, cables are not that expensive…).

4- The analog sound.

I know it’s probably a question of expectations and maybe I misunderstood the product. But this was a key selling point for me. I can do a lot of things with my computer. But there is one thing I’ll never be able to do. And it’s analog sound.

For the AR, they made the decision to provide “machines” instead of a more standard programmation style (oscillators, envelopes etc). I think it’s GREAT in that it makes it super easy to tweak drum sounds. But as soon as you want a bit more freedom… you feel stuck. And I was basically using samples all other the place which - for me - defeated the purpose.

And the thing that killed me is that most of the points above can probably be fixed via a software update. But Elektron is completely tight lipped about this (e.g. the drum pads). I respect this (better to over-deliver than over-promise). But I wasn’t comfortable with it and an instrument this price.

I hope Elektron will address some of these in a future update… and who knows I might get an AR again one day :-)!

2

I returned my first AR for similar reasons. But I just got another one and along with my Tempest and Octatrack I hope I am happy with it for quite some time.

For starters, yeah the pads do suck. They’re good for pretty much everything but finger drumming. Pressure sensitivity is good but velocity sensitivity is a joke. Elektron REALLY needs to fix this and it should be their top priority.

I suspect they’re working on it and I know from having lots of stuff with pads that it’s delicate, if you make them too sensitive then you kill the dynamics and introduce crosstalk. But they really need to add the following:

  1. Velocity Range
  2. Velocity Curve
  3. Pad Sensitivity

In the mean time I plan to try to figure out a way to have a sound on my Tempest dedicated to playing the AR for recording real time performances. The pads on the Tempest are utterly fantastic and pretty much the main reason I love it so much.

I didn’t immediately love the sound of the AR. But over time I’ve come to really enjoy it as a complement to my Tempest. I like to layer lots of drums because, well, I’m a drummer. So the Tempest is great at big, brash, almost acoustic sounding stuff. The AR is better at tight mid-range stuff and subby kicks. So there you go - it only costs you $3500 to get a really good analog drum setup :slight_smile:

I don’t care about the voice input too much. I may use it with a single voice out of the Tempest maybe for bass lines or something, but the Tempest individual outs are incredibly hot so I don’t see this being an issue.

The only other things I would like Elektron to address with the Rytm are fixing the current inability to live-record retrigs (i.e. for adding rolls, etc.) and add more machines if possible. Personally I’d like to see a “synth” machine added maybe to the LT section so I could do A4 esque bass lines, etc.

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For the AR, they made the decision to provide “machines” instead of a more standard programmation style (oscillators, envelopes etc). I think it’s GREAT in that it makes it super easy to tweak drum sounds. But as soon as you want a bit more freedom… you feel stuck. And I was basically using samples all other the place which - for me - defeated the purpose.

Don’t take this the wrong way, but from this description it sounds like you wanted a synth, not a drum machine.

This does become a hot topic if a certain other machine (by a different company) is mentioned, but the freedom you talk about is kind of a PITA when you want a drum module.

It’s that double-edged sword of having lots of freedom, but then being stuck in a world of complexity while you work out how to get do something simple or get from a to b with the minimum effort.

Drum machines are, after all, basically synths with fine tuned parameters for making drum type sounds.

For contrast, check out something like the Vermona DRM - it’s far more limited, but still works great as a drum machine.

Some people say the A4 is better for drums … might be worth checking it out.

Or … the other machine that shall not be named :wink:

Peace,
Andy.

4

That’s fair, sounds like it wasn’t for you. I absolutely love my AR, but I do agree with you on a couple points, specifically 2) the pads and 3) the line input.

As for 1) I’m getting great results with the compressor, and never noticed any clicks or pops, except possibly at extreme settings. Best built in compressor I’ve ever used on anything. I could see it being a little obtuse if you’re not experienced with compression, but personally I find it pretty straightforward. As for the sidechain settings, keep in mind that you’re EQing the sidechain, not selecting a different sidechain source. This is a different from the standard pumping kick sidechain setup many people use, but you can get similar results.

  1. Analog sound. For this one, yeah, if analog drums aren’t what you’re looking for. clearly it’s not going to work out. I will say that the sounds aren’t 100% what I need either. The kicks are the one area that the AR is perfect for my uses. But on pretty much everything else, I layer in samples. Once I do that, I find that the flexibility of the analog machines really great. But I do hope they add many more machines in the future.

Anyway, not trying to rebut your points, just offering a perspective from a more satisfied user.

5

Thanks guys for your comments and feedback. I think you are right, I bought something thinking it would be something else… Definitely my mistake.

@jamrod. Just curious re: compressor settings. I connected an audio source to the line input. As soon as I set the release below 2s, I was getting strange clicks. I’d lie if I were to say I am an expert in this field, but I have never had this problem before. As far as I remember, it happened mostly when using the line input.
Re: sidechain. Thing is, most of the times I used the Bass Tom to create a bass line. So when I low pass filtered the sidechain signal, it got both the Bass Drum and the Bass Tom and I could not get a good pumping effect.
Ultimately I managed to do it using the LFO, but it did not feel completely right.

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That’s strange about the line input affecting the clicking. Not entirely sure what’s going on with your compressor settings there. If you ever get chance to record an example, I’d be interested to hear what’s going on.
I feel you with the sidechain situation - I’ve had similar issues with a competing kick and bass. I don’t have any direct solution to the compressor settings, but personally I often highpass some of the bottom off of the bass to try to bring it up to a different register. Not always what you want, though.

7

All of these things are really worrying me about the purchase of a RYTM… I really love the concept, it’s the closest thing on the market to what I want from a drum machine… but the idea that I might be underwhelmed by the pads terrifies me at this sort of price point.

Additionally, it really confuses me when people talk about how great the Elektron sequencer is when it can’t do a triplet mode or record rolls etc…

I tried emailing Elektron support to get an idea of what i’d be able to expect for this device in the future regarding sensitivity/outright replacement of the pads and if they’d be implementing a triplet system in the future.

They mentioned retrig at 12ths and microtiming to get triplets and said they are “working on” adding sensitivity adjustment, but said that past that they can’t comment on OS development… so part of me thinks maybe I should just wait a few more months and see how it develops…

With a company like Moog for example i’m a little more willing to “roll the dice”… but I keep hearing about all these dissapointing quirks or shortcuts in the Elektron line (and in all fairness, you really do seem to get quite a lot at this price point) that it makes me hesitant to just roll the dice on RYTM in good faith…

Honestly though… there isn’t actually another drum machine on the market that catches my eye the way RYTM does, they’re just not what I’m looking for…

So sometimes I find myself thinking I should just pull the trigger, get myself a RYTM and let any “shortcomings” shape my music rather than perceive them as a dead end… but again… at this price point… ah well.

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Psynthetic -

You shouldn’t worry about retrigs, it would be cool if they could be recorded in real time, but p-locking them isn’t that hard either.

Yeah the pads suck as-is, but it’s still a great machine. I can’t see Elektron NOT fixing the problem unless of course some technical limitation prevents it. They’re smart not to comment on development. DSI made that mistake and that’s a large part of why you hear so much complaining about the Tempest.

Speaking of which, if playing insanely great pads is important to you I strongly urge you to check out the Tempest. It gets a lot of flak, but it’s just like anything you read about on the internets. But it’s truly great fun to play. I’m a drummer, I’m very picky about these things.

Even though it’s a bit of a blank slate for analog drum synthesis, the sequencer is amazing for real time drumming and recording. A lot of great patches are available on the DSI forum. I also find it’s UI much easier to navigate than the Rytm and it’s got much more fun real-time performance tricks. (i.e. beat wide FX, sliders, beat roll, etc.) The sequencer has double the resolution and double the pattern length.

I have both and really can’t decide which I like better. If I was in a pinch and had to sell one, I’d probably sell the Rytm. As much as I love it, the Tempest feels more like a timeless classic machine and one I’d regret selling more.

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I find a lot of limits with the AR and I am often unimpressed by the synth engines.

With Elektron stuff there is a personal ratio between how much you love what it can do vs frustration at what it can’t do. I’m quite happily tipped in the love what it can do category right now :slight_smile:

You can’t really think of it as a synthesizer - it’s a drum machine. It’s the same as any instrument in this regard - a guitar is limited in tone and method, and it plays and sounds different and has different limitations to a tenor sax, for instance.

Based on your post - get a Tempest.

Re compressor - it’s not like a normal compressor. It’s an AR compressor and it’s strange, with strange limits as described above. You have to use it as an instrument, with its own particular personality and limits, not as a generic compressor.

The one thing that does annoy me about the AR is that normally Elektron make products that reward you for being creative i.e. they unlock themselves when you find a way to get around limits creatively. There’s not much I can do in that regard with one LFO or one filter…

11

Like KOTARE I also found the Rytm’s feature set a bit disappointing. It’s almost like the Elektron box for kids. It’s definately Elektron’s smallest machine (with the biggest price).
I have warmed to it now and I’ve always liked the sound but if ever I get tired of juggling 5 Elektron machines then the Rytm will be the first to go. I can also confirm that better kicks come from my AK.

This guy has been making some nice noise on his Rytm…
http://www.elektronauts.com/t/single-track-rytms/9002/72962

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very short release settings on any compressors will always cause artefacts and distortion especially when there is a lot of low frequency rumble sent into it and squeezed very hard. you just have to make sure you keep the release setting above the duration of the lowest frequencies full cycle and you’re good. every compressor has that as natural limitation except maybe some high priced analog outboard gear that costs thousands.

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Get a Tempest and a ESX :heart: :heart: :heart:

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natrixgli - Thanks for the feedback… I’ll give Tempest a second look, but honestly it just hasn’t drawn me in… actually while i’m being honest i’ve never really given any of the DSI’s a second glance… not sure why… also the Analogue Keys is appealing to me… (but I don’t “need” another key synth as badly as I’d like a drum machine)… so that’s probably biasing my decision towards Elektron if i’m gonna be learning my way around their menus anyway…

Keiowas - If i’m step sequencing though can I just drop a triplet the same way I could drop a normal 8th?
I know triplets are possible, but I get the impression you can just drop them into place quickly on the grid with the sequencer?
Also, can you quantise to triplets if playing into the sequencer live?
(Edit): Keiowas I just saw you also mentioned that the Tempest doesn’t support CC?! …but… it’s 2014… things like this baffle me…

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@alfred I find this (“keep the release setting above the duration of the lowest frequencies full cycle”) very strange. Could you point me to an article where they explain this phenomenon?
And in my case, I had clicks with a release cycle of 2s. So the problem would occur with waves of 0.5Hz - which I doubt existed in my sound.

16

i thought it was a typo and you meant 2 ms. this distortion definitely shouldn’t occur at 2 seconds release.
what is strange about this problem? it seems you understood my explanation correctly. if the compressors gain reduction oscillates with the lowest frequency a lot of comps produce this kind of noise.

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I don’t care what people think or say about gear but I have to point out in defence of the Tempest, it may not have micro timing but it does have time shift, so stop banging on about it…

[ul]
[li]Time Shift - Tempest’s sequencer resolution is 96 PPQN.
tiMe Shift allows a note to be shifted +/- 3 parts. At 120 BPM, 1 part equals about 5.2 milliseconds.

I don’t even have a Tempest but I know that because I read manuals for fun.[/li]
[/ul]

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The beta OS also allows unquantized recording.

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  1. Yeah, I never really use the compressor. I can’t seem to figure it out and my outboard, relatively crap, compressors will do what I expect.

  2. I find the pads virtually unplayable. If I tap something in, I usually have to go back through and edit each step for velocity and such.

  3. I tried to bring a small set up home to play with. It was pretty much unusable. I had to go through and turn all the drums down. . . . and since my external device wasn’t in stereo it only came in on one ear. Kind of annoying.
    Why can’t they be consistent between basic device structures?

  4. SO MUCH THIS!!! Why is the synth part so limited?!?! I could probably replace this thing with a MPC as I tend to have to use samples for everything except the toms. I end up making drum sounds on my modular or the Analog Four to put into the AR! Why should one have to use other synthesizers to make drum sounds for a drum synthesizer?!?! Tempest is way better in this regard. . . but I really hated the sequencer.

I too hope they sort this machine out. Hopefully before the end of the year but I won’t hold my breath. Maybe by next summer. I bought mine direct from Elektron so returning it was going to be kind of a pain in the ass and shipping wasn’t gonna be cheap. I’ll give it a while longer before I dump it for something a bit more capable. Sure someone is out there cooking up a proper drum synth!!??

20

There have been no new drum modules since the AR was released, right?

I’m really hoping to see ihatederekreed eat his AR. Come on guys, I know you want to see your expensive drum machine grow, but isn’t it worth seeing someone actually consume the thing?

ELEKTRON: I don’t even want an AR, but I will buy one tomorrow if someone makes a video of one being eaten in full because of unrealized expectations. Keep holding out, or make it the sexy drum box that exceeds all our dreams.

21

Bass Drum FM and Snare Drum FM were introduced in 1.01.
Cenk had also mentioned a ring mod drum synth in early demos but we haven’t seen it yet.
I expect they are lining up some news for winter NAMM at this rate …