Why do the analog oscillators have a limited stable tuning range?

djst · 2022-11-09T23:02:47.444Z

On the default preset for the analog oscillator track 11, the notes cap at around C4 and won’t pitch up beyond that. Is there a technical explanation to this limitation? I know I can transpose the oscillator on the synth parameter page to reach a higher octave but then that still doesn’t sound quite right and starts to sound out of tune. My Korg Minilogue XD sounds like a dream in comparison.

AdamJay · 2022-11-09T23:08:36.019Z

Minilogue XD analog OSC only has 4 octave tuning range independent of keyboard transpose as well.

thermionic · 2022-11-09T23:37:24.937Z

The original dual VCO machine from the Rytm is designed for a narrower range of operation, sure.

I don’t know if I’d say “cheap-ish”, but a groovebox architecture tuned for a specific sound and range versus a dedicated and broader-purpose monosynth.

Airyck · 2022-11-10T02:11:09.628Z

djst:

notes cap at around C4 and won’t pitch up beyond that. Is there a technical explanation to this limitation?

Take this as an educated guess (I don’t know this for sure).

Rytm came out in 2014.

The first one chip VCO/VCA re-creations from Cool Audio happened in 2016(?).

Before that most everyone used LM13700 OTA’s.

LM13700 oscillator designs (that I’ve seen) have to be designed for tracking over a large frequency range. They can track over 3 octaves relatively well with a (fairly) simple design. Large ranges that track accurately are more difficult to make.

If you don’t need a bunch of octave range then the added circuit design time, parts, and tuning would cost more money and time.

So the oscillator design just wasn’t made for that is my guess. The components for pitch range and tuning are most likely set in stone.
Make some small improvements and move on.

Since they already had a design they could re-use for Syntakt, why spend a lot designing from scratch?

I could be totally wrong too

boredsofcanada · 2022-11-10T02:45:29.412Z

The Syntakt manual refers to the Analog Drum Machines as Analog Drum Voices. I think the key word here is ‘drums’. You know, like for percussion.

The Analog Drum Voices can be tuned, but they’re not general purpose VCOs like on the Analog Four.

sezare56 · 2022-11-10T08:27:53.855Z

djst:

the notes cap at around C4 and won’t pitch up beyond that.

It can go to C7, +24 semitones with Tune. But the last notes are not well tuned. Tune +12 is ok.

Edit : seems an octave lower compared to digital machines

djst · 2022-11-10T09:27:56.824Z

sezare56:

It can go to C7, +24 semitones with Tune. But the last notes are not well tuned. Tune +12 is ok

Thanks for the correction, yes this is what I mean: although you can go up to C7 technically, it sounds bad. Very out of tune and not in a particularly musical way. It’s like they have issues with tuning in general because even the default tune/init patch has a lot of detuning issues. I guess others might label it as “analog feel”? But it feels a little too unreliable to me.

sezare56 · 2022-11-10T10:31:59.950Z

With Tune =+24 the last octave (C6-C7) is not really usable.
The 2 oscs are not perfectly tuned, and it vary depending on tracks, and if the Syntakt is warm…

Not a big problem for me. It think it is not perfect but reliable, knowing the limits.

Same topic :

Syntakt users: How stable/unstable are your Dual VCOs? Syntakt

test of the dual VCO’s, 10 min after start-up : TUNE 24 octave 1 : the highest octaves sound bad from Eb and this for the 3 tracks ==> I restore the factory calibration –> no real difference ==> I do a calibration –> no real difference I think the higher notes are to be forgotten, at least in the current state. Certainly this is the same on all machines.

natehorn · 2022-11-10T11:02:08.437Z

djst:

Did Elektron put cheap-ish oscillators in this thing?

I can’t speak for the design decision but although there are VCO’s that support wider stable octave ranges they won’t neccessarily have the same qualities - it’s unlikely to have had any real cost implication.

Sometimes a VCO will be chosen because it performs particularly well for bass, for example, and in that case the range will almost definitely be limited to the lower octaves.

It’s rare to get an opportunity to see this play out as well as with the Moog Minitaur + Sirin. Essentially the same synth but with a different VCO, they have very different strengths and sound.

thermionic · 2022-11-10T17:41:16.996Z

sezare56:

It think it is not perfect but reliable, knowing the limits.

That’s really the case here. Expectations need to be set sometimes, and a single-task oscillator may indeed be more flexible than one incorporated into a groovebox with multiple different configurations for the same oscillator.

That doesn’t necessarily make the flexible oscillator “expensive” or the Rytm’s configurable machines “cheap”.

boredsofcanada · 2022-11-10T21:40:00.131Z

Unfortunately the best place to be aware of these expectations is not from the Syntakt product page on the Elektron website.

While it does contain factual information, the voice of it is clearly marketing-driven. It’s where they’re selling the sizzle in order for you to click the buy button.

You got to download the user manual and pour through the machine details in order to reveal the meat.

thermionic · 2022-11-10T22:08:39.471Z

Expectations are more than marketing, if you’re buying products and certainly instruments it’s best to be an informed consumer.

I bought the Rytm mki before the Dual VCO machine was developed, so I didn’t have any expectations for the later development.

But, my expectations for grooveboxes are as their own ecosystem, which they are tuned for.

I’m not going to blame someone for disappointment for not being able to do everything with the analog element of the Syntakt, but it’s a good lesson to learn more about VCOs and why they sound like they do, so there are less surprises when a part of a whole may be less flexible than dedicated prepatched or even modular synths. If you want perfect analog pitch tracking, checking the default octave range supported, etc.

I don’t think the marketing downplays any limitations so much as focuses on how the elements work together.

It’s hard to build a model in your head of expectations v reality, especially when our community is semi-isolated and there’s not always the opportunity to demo locally ;(