Why buy a synthesizer when the app is just as good?

You will make different sounds using the real piece of gear. Not necessarily better, but different. There’s nothing in software approximating the more unique analog designs, either. You can’t really simulate a vacuum tube.

Even using digital gear like an SP-404, you will have a much different workflow than using ableton.

Advantages for everything, but differences make the real thing worth saving and spending the $ if that’s what u want.

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App -> cheap, but you can’t sell it again
Hardware-Synthesizer -> expensive, but you can sell it again

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So true, I have so many apps I wish I could sell or trade off.

The upside is I never have to worry about selling software synths to pay bills. Once they’re mine, they’re mine forever.

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  • hardware does sound better very often – it alone sounds as good as VST with stack of plugins that do further processing.

  • for some obscure reasons, MIDI controllers are less fun to use.
    even with hardware – i know what i’m talking about, since i have two knobby MIDI controllers attached to my MC-707 when working on a track.

I’m surprised by the near-consensus, that software sounds as good as (analog) hardware. I don’t agree.

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I use and love both, each have strengths and weaknesses and I use each to meet a need.

What I hate though is the idea that using hardware makes you superior or more legit. All these terrible youtube vids of people twiddling on 1000s of pounds worth of gear or big modular racks and people saying wow, amazing, sounds great and it’s some crappy loop being tweaked. Some people are more impressed by the gear being used over the music coming out of it. Everyone stuck in a consumerist echo chamber of likes and shares for fancy gear over the art of creating music. Just look at all the influencer videos and YouTube channels of expensive gear making crap music. And btw I’ll fully admit to being part of the problem and at times watching total rubbish videos because he’s using a drum machine I want but will never afford.

So yeah, make music and use what works within your limitations. Dont care what’s cool or not or how others sit and judge your choices. Just please don’t spend tons of money stuck in a GAS loop making nothing spending all your time looking for the new thing over creating and enjoying what you have :grinning:

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“Don’t waste yourself”:joy:

I would totally go for software if it was reliable and cheap enough.

If I could put together a small setup with a laptop and a couple of controllers for a reasonable sum and

  1. be sure that it would work smoothly for - let’s say - 10 years

  2. not having to give money or data to Apple or Windows

  3. be sure that I could use it for endless jams and live performances without crashing

  4. not having to become a computer expert in the process

Then I’d go for it (and try to avoid paid VSTs).

Hardware is a lot of fun, but GAS is not.
Constantly buying & selling gear is no fun.
Rearranging spaces, boxes, cables, decksavers, bags and so on - no fun.
Small screens - no fun.
To be alone, walking by myself, thinking about what selling and buying next - no fun.

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In a nutshell: your music will sound different with hardware, even though technically hardware and software sound pretty much identical.

Here’s why: Hardware offers a dedicated tool for a specific task. This is important because it invites you to use the tool differently. Having a VST with lots of virtual knobs isn’t the same as having those knobs in front of you. Note that I don’t just mean that it’s more convenient to twist physical knobs, I mean that you would perhaps not twist it at all in the VST. As such, you will explore differently, and this WILL lead to your music sounding different.

The same argument can be used to explain why UX matters in VSTs too. You will use one VST differently than another one, depending on which features it highlights and invites to explore.

Hi there - I am interested in this as sometimes get hand strain using a trackpad / mouse etc and find midi controllers a bit frustrating to use.
Do you mind me asking - would it work OK when to turn a knob you have to click and drag like in Bitwig rather than just mouse wheel scroll? I would be wanting to use it for synth parameters ideally - does it sometimes feel too precise? for example if you want to turn a filter cutoff with one quick turn but it takes a few rotations to do? is it more suitable for tweaking mixer levels etc than controlling synths?
Any info would be appreciated as I have often considered it.

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I feel like it is not so much about the soft vs hardware battle anymore. Rather, as many have already said, it has more to do with the limitations that are imposed. For example, as much as I like synthesis, eurorack seems like a non-inspiring world due to its potential lack of limitations (although money is surely one :smile:). Likewise, Reaktor, Max and all this stuff is very intimidating and not so inpsiring to me for the same reason. However, I love the Pro 2 and the digitone, as they offer me both good balance between possibilities and limitations, as well as VSTs like Bazille for the same reasons. I tend to focus on each of these to learn them inside out.

Also, one thing that I have acknowledged only recently is that part of the fun also lies in learning how sounds are made in presets or fixed-architecture devices. For example, although it may sound stupid, learning the ins and outs of how sounds are synthesized in an 808 and 909 from the circuit itself has been enlightening to me. It is not so much about the basic sound generation (two sine waves + noise, ok simple) but rather about the tricks (specific VCA that actually are also rectifiers and clippers, the absence of enveloppes on the 808 for BD and SD, etc) the engineers used to make these sounds more lively.

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This got me triggered hard. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Sure I could get a drum app and program all my drums that way.

Or I could play my actual drum kit.

Guess which one I like best?

“Just as good” is not.

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This vst synth has made me a believer. I never thought it possible to have Analogue sound coming from my computer monitors. An absolute joy to play with a midi keyboard

https://www.xils-lab.com/products/polykb-iii-&-ii-p-159.html

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I agree with you, although I believe people in general now feel that the delta between analog hardware and the top soft versions of them aren’t miles apart ONCE the settings are dialled in. For me this is important - the tactility factor helps solidify the process/journey aspects that seem to trigger my reward system in a very nice way :slight_smile:

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Ok, first thing about VST vs. analog is that the analog we think of, the analog sound we think of is the sound of those old synths from the 70s. They were all wonky, hard to tune and units of the same synth sounded quite different from each other. That sort of randomness is quite hard to emulate, and thus VST’s can’t quite get there. They just sound too clean, too good. I bet there’s VST’s now that can come REALLY close, but when played next to a beat up old MS-20, the VST will not sound the same.

That said, as we get closer to modern times and analog synths became more realiable and clean, a VST can emulate them really well and honestly be indistinguishable, especially in a mix. Modern analog oscillators can sound extremely clean and steady (see: A4) and honestly kind of sound like a VST, hah. So, the question isn’t really whether VST’s sound like analog, they do, but what kind of instrument can you emulate digitally. You can’t emulate a guitar, still. Too much small variation that cannot feasibly be programmed into the VST. Same with old, technologically primitive synths. Too much variation within the circuitry, the small defects in the sound are what makes them sound huge and warm. Hard to program those in.

You can’t really emulate feedback digitally, either.

Cherry Audio has an online test. A series of 6 samples, mix of VST’s and hardware synth samples. They are different each time you take the test. So far, 2.3% of people taking the test have guessed correctly which is hardware and which is software.

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Exactly.

Every time I do a filter sweep on my Polivoks it sounds different. Not just a little bit different either, sometimes it sounds completely different, without really changing anything. Mostly because it’s basically kinda broken, but broken in such a way that sounds fantastic.

I’m sure this sort of nonlinearity can be done with VSTs, but it can’t be easy and it has to be pretty CPU intensive.

Much easier to emulate more reliable stuff though, I’m sure.

I don’t even know if there’s any sense in programming those kind of defects in anyway. A lot of work and most people want a synth that stays in tune and doesn’t do weird shit on its own, hah.

These people are missing out.

It’s a valid point though.

If you want a Minimoog or a DX 7 sound (let’s ignore the tactile aspects and just think about sound), just use a VST, it’s going to sound exactly the same as the real thing in the mix.