Yeah that’s a pretty terrible association with a piece of gear.
Seriously, you should look at vintage ones. The Tascam MM-1 is a great for your purpose for example!
On the Model 24, can you change the level of each channel that goes to the sub mix? Or is it just a toggle switch that either sends the post-fader channel to the sub mix or doesn’t?
Wanted to add a weird thing I found that is kind of related to this topic. I have a Midas Venice F24 that has 4 sends and two stereo returns. The problem here is that on the stereo channels if I use Aux1 and 2 to send to my Bim and bring it back on the stereo returns it sums the channel’s left right audio to aux 1 and aux 2 not giving you a true stereo send. It works fine using a stereo source with two mono channels or using up two stereo tracks for one stereo source.
Current mixer designs are pretty frustrating. Thunderbolt is fast enough that it’s almost easier to just use an interface.
That ‘s because the aux sends are mono. I believe some A&H desks do keep the stereo balance, but that’s exceptions.
Splitting out stereo signals to 2 mono channels is the classic way around it, but of course it eats up desk channels and you have to handle aux and eq on 2 channels. Not handy in a live situation.
It’s a toogle switch on each channel, wether the signal is send to the main mix, to the sub mix or both. And then the sub mix has a dedicated volume.
I use the Qu16 and it’s great but if you need more channels look at the QuPac.
Mm, that’s what I thought. The issue then being, for example, you can’t control separately how much of a channel is sent to a reverb buss. Everything is sent at its mix fader level. It’s not unusual to want e.g. lots of reverb on a synth part and only a tickle of it on the hi hats.
That’s probably the one thing I don’t like the look of with the Model 24. All those channels and no stereo aux sends/busses at all.
Is crazy hey. Seems like this is a fairly common requirement / use case, but nothing is really available for it. Are stereo instruments and effects a too new a phenomenon or something? Surely not.
A few DJ mixers have the right send / receive setup, and stereo channels of course, but they don’t cater for mono channels - eg. individual drum channels, or a mono synth etc. The small format is nice too, but they’re pretty expensive for something with a relatively low channel count.
#kickstarter for a new mixer anyone
actually yes… stereo is relatively new if you take recording history into account. also, when stereo came around the mix engineer created the stereo mix by panning mono tracks.
think about it… is there a stereo guitar or stereo bass or stereo snare drum? nope. eleectric pianos and various organs and things were still mono… a hammond b3 ony became a multi channel thing when it was mic’d up.
stereo mic set ups use two mono channels and are panned.
stero channels didn’t really come around until later and often were two mono channels ganged together.
prosumer/consumer gear is a different story somewhat. anywy… even a high end small format console like an API 1608 (or the new version) has only 8 sends but lot’s of busses. i don’t think it has any stereo channels though… i can’t remember.
There are not so much good and affordable options on the market, if you want to keep it analog. The Tascam is not perfect, but comes really close to my needs.
Digital desks can link mono inputs to pairs for stereo, plus fx sends. The benefits out way the inferior eq for me.
I like the yamaha 01v with 4 fx sends, plus I use the monitor group. It also has 4 buses and adat 2*8 on optical. Dynamics side chainable everywhere.
I pair it with my dj mixer that has become an fx hub with epic how around ability.
digital w/lot’s of AD/DA for routing is pretty much the only answer other than a really big analog desk
My SQ5 can do it too, but I recommend either Qu or QuPac
You could also consider using something like the Keith McMillan K-Mix, or another interface with plenty of inputs/outputs like the Motu range 8a/624/Ultralite/etc (a bonus of which has DC coupled inputs/outputs for using with modular). Routing is flexible enough to do whatever you want.
Ideally though there would be better analog mixing desks with multiple stereo sends.
Currently using a Motu 624 combined with a Mackie 1920 (on which i use stereo aux returned back into a stereo input like many other people have mentioned above.)
I’ve been having exactly the same dilemma as the OP. Mega frustrating that the designs don’t take into account modern needs of a studio.
I currently use an Apollo Quad linked to an Apollo 16 via TB and have a cheap Beringher Ultrapatch Pro in between.
As the Apollo has no internal virtual allocation of FX, I need to use up physical i/o to route external FX - quite frustrating to say the least (and expensive)
I have found this to work fine for me on the 1642vlz4. On one stereo bus i have the AH and thanks to this setup I can choose whether the dry signals are sent to either only main bus or main+AH or only AH.
On the 2nd stereo bus I have an Eventide Space reverb. I can indeed only toggle sending to this bus on the channel strips and then have one overal send gain control with the bus fader. I ve made it part of my sound. Probably helps that I m using it for heavy fx, not subtle reverbs.
On mono aux sends I have an EHX MemoryMan which is mono and routes into a Stereo Pulsar to turn it into a ping pong like delay. And I have a send to my MD for resampling.
I would like to add more advanced delay and modulation fx but can t send it a stereo signal. Maybe i ll use the doubled bus outputs on this desk. Or I ll put the space on a mono aux instead of a stereo bus.
Yeah, I really like the look of the Model 24 and it suits how I want to work - apart from the fact that I’m used to using an MX-1 that has stereo FX send/return with FX send amount per channel (with an Eventide Space on the loop, usually). Not sure if I could live with losing that. I probably could, in that I’ll just use it inline on the Monomachine or something and add other reverb in the mixdown later (I want to track live without a computer, and mix/add fx later).
Now with support for multi track recording…
https://www.allen-heath.com/series/wizard/
FEATURE SUMMARY
- 19″ Rack mountable
- 10 mic/line inputs with balanced XLR/TRS jack, insert and direct output
- 100mm faders
- Reverse switches swap the function of the group and aux masters in Monitor or Dual Mode applications
- 6 Aux sends – switchable pre/post fade
- 4 Audio groups
- 2 Dual Stereo inputs with separate gain and ‘ON’ switches allowing inputs to be selected independently or mixed together
- 4 band EQ with 2 swept mids
- 6×2 Matrix for providing feeds for in ear monitors, delay speakers, video, broadcast and more
- Oscillator and Pink Noise generator for line-up and speaker testing
- Tri-colour, 12 segment bargraph metering
- +48V Phantom Power
- Signal and Peak LEDs
- Talkback Mic XLR with trim
- Lamp socket
- USB multitrack recording option
Why exactly do you propose these?