What to pair with OT? (AK, DN, A4 mk2)

Elektron Gear Analog Keys/Four
#1

I don’t have the money right now anyway, but I in future I would like to add one of these to my Octatrack mk2. My ideal would be to have only two devices on the table…which is where a problem creeps in.

Sound and functionality wise, I would choose the A4 mk2…only problem, I would probably need a midi keyboard to get most out of it.

Which led me to consider DK and AK. I like the DK form factor and it seems very practical and immediate, but sound wise I am not completely sold. It seems you can get a better variety of sounds from the A4. Also it doesn’t have the added benefit of being an analog filterbank+drive.

Then there is the AK with nice keys built in…meaning no external keyboard needed, but a more bulky layout. Also it has the old screen and encoders, which I am not so into, no warranty …BUT it is cheap. Which one would you choose and why?

#2

That’s a pretty hard choice. I guess it’s whether you enjoy digital, or analogue. Also, like you eluded to it being a filter bank, the AK uses neighbor tracks. Love my AK, but I haven’t really dove into the DN yet. They are both genius in their own ways.
I myself really like the effects on my AK. Also, and I’ll say it again, the drums on the AK are deep…really deep. Effects are also on their own channel, so you can sequence the effects. It’s more modeled after the Monomachine/OT in it’s structure…oh, and a cv sequencer.
The DN is a more modern and streamlined approach, and from what I’ve figured so far has a wider palette of sounds. It sounds great, and with the same amount of patience and persistence, I feel like you could get even more complex sounds with it. Way more polyphony as well. I’m not an expert, but I feel like the Digitone would be a better all around synth for playing because of the polyphony and the variety of sounds. But I feel like the AK is like a crazy toolbox in a sardine can case and it shines in other ways.
Difficult choice. Depends on what you want.

#3

Microfreak.

The keyboard is compact and fast, and it has something like aftertouch. Tons of cool oscillator models and as far as I can tell, only the Hydrasynth has a comparably good patching system. Cheap new, cheaper used when they show up.

Since you already have the Octatrack, you plenty of sequencing capabilities for the MF.

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#4

FWIW I like them all. However, I’ve just paired my A4 mkii (which I love more and more as the years go by) with a secondhand Novation Launchkey mini mkiii (cost me £50) and it’s a brilliant advance on the A4 alone! I wanted the Launchkey because it’s so small with velocity sensitive keys. The fact that it weights next to nothing, and is a similar size to the A4 (not twice as long as an A4K/DNK) makes transport a doddle. If I were in your position, I’d probably look out for s/h any of the devices and when a clean one came up for a decent price snap it up, get stuck in, and if it wasn’t quite my thing, move it on for little loss of £$.

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#5

DNK definitely. So much variation and fun to be had with the DN, lots of digital craziness but also very fair approximations of analogue smoothness too, and lots in between. a very broad palette, and very immediate to program once you get the hang of it. the A4 is a tad more menu-divey (not by much tho tbf) and i grew bored fairly quickly of teh sound palette. but then im much more into digital synths than analogues

as someone else said, the micro freak is a cool suggestion too, and a lot cheaper

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#6

I would really consider to get a good midi keyboard an work with modules.
If the keybed goes bonker you at least have that module.

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#7

While the Microfreak is very interesting, it does have a lot more limitations…no individual outs, only 4 voice paraphonic (iirc), no effects, small Midi adapters. Hopefully the new Syntakt will be an expanded Microfreak :smiley: I would like a more “complete” device.

@christianlukegates Why do you think the DK sound palette is wider (my brain tells me it should be)? But then again I hear demos of the A4, like @taro 's sound packs or @psychetropic 's videos and feel like the A4 and AK can create very organic sounds, which I haven’t often heard from the Digitone. @christianlukegates Do you have any organic patch demos to share? Nice plucks, flute, pianos? I would love to hear more versatility out of the DT, but somehow a lot of it sounds samey to me.
Then again, that might just be my taste…I don’t know.

@gerkinear That always is a thought process of mine too, but then again so many people that the DK or AK seem like so much more of an instrument with the keys…

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#8

i just think that you can go to alot further places with FM, and they dont all have to be of the brash metallic/bell type sounds either ( tho those are great too). with the A4 (and kind of with analogue subtractive synths in general) i personally felt like i was always stuck in one particular territory with only so much room to move (obvs thats only my personal opinion and also probably says much of my limited sound design skills…!) also depends how you define organic really. its very cliched but generally analogue sounds ‘warmer’ and maybe because of subtle inconsistencies in the tuning etc that can also come across as more organic/human and less digital/‘synthy’, if thats what you mean…? but again, the DT can approximate those things, but with more (IMO) versatility. i hardly ever get to the stage where i record anything of my own these days so can’t share anything of my own, and my DN has been packed away for a while since ive gone back ITB, but i recommend checking out the sound pack examples on the Elektron website as theres a good range on there and a lot of them i use/have used as starting points for my own patches. also, off the top of my head the Co5MA sound packs are lovely and theres some nice stuff to be found in there that you may interpret as organic? theres links to examples in the main link- Elektron Digitone Ultimate Bundle : CO5MOS

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#9

I think there are some nice DT sound packs out here, that’s true…but somehow to my ears they stay in a certain realm.

For example this video here got me really interested in the AK https://youtu.be/BZGVfwS9Su4 .
I think these sounds sound organic at times. And these are also ridiculously good sounds Stream A4 FM Drum Patch Pack02 by kimura taro | Listen online for free on SoundCloud Like real instruments of sorts, which supposedly an FM synth should be better at. I hope this explains a little better what I am looking for.

Somehow I am missing those kinds of sounds on he DT/DK

#10

The organic side of the A4/AK comes out a lot from the AM and the pulsewidth mod at audio rates. So, set the waves to TRI, turn on both AM switches, set the speed on each PWM lfo to max, slowly dial in a little depth. That’s where you get those fuzzy-scrapey-blowy-breathy textures, also use the Fade envelopes (for transients - they are fast!) and play a lot with the relative osc pitches. Noise at low bit rates and tuned up high is good too. Randomize the PW on keystart, then really clamp down with the filters to scoop it out, you’ll have a very hot spectrum coming out of the oscs. Do that and it often starts to sound like some kind of sample.

Also, I leave the analog drift param ON.

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#11

Great, thanks for the mini-tutorial! Now I wish even more that I had an AK :slight_smile:

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#12

My FM drum patches in Analog Four use exponential FM synthesis. This is not the same as Digitone’s linear FM synthesis. Each increase in the amount of modulation shifts the base note of the frequency.
The combination of exponential FM and modulation envelopes can be used to generate organic drum sounds.

Also, Digitone (including Yamaha’s DX series) is not an FM synth, but a phase modulation synth. I think this also makes some difference to the sound.

Also, as @psychetropic said, I think that AM contributes a lot to the organic sound of Analog Four.

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#13

Thanks for sharing the knowledge!

I am glad I opened this thread now…now I know that I seem to prefer exponential to linear FM.
Yesterday I didn’t even know there was such a distinction.

May I ask, why the DX and DN is not an FM synth?

#14

FM synth is actually a phase modulation where the phase of the carrier is changed by the modulator.

Korg calls the FM synth VPM (Variable Phase Modulation).

Analog FM [ The sound is not stable and drifts.]
Digital FM/PM [Sound is stable. ]

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#15

This is what i came up with till now, but imagine that you can stack an trigger 4 sounds blended and (lfo’d) panned and filtered mixed and matched on top of each other too. All sequenced from 1 internal/external sequencer track or midi keyboard. You even can set 2 sounds to blend between wet/dry with modwheel.
Sounds in isolation from about 6min. Delay and feedback settings a bit too much but you get the idea

As posted in “anyone disliked FM” thread recently

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#16

Expo FM is often what you have on analogs, and it’s a totally different sound, more inharmonic and harder to control. And one problem with it is that changing the depth of the modulator changes the base pitch, so you have to retune the carrier to keep to the same note. Linear FM (or phase modulation) doesn’t do this so it’s a little easier to get trad “instrument” sounds from it.

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#17

Thanks for sharing the patches!
While they sound really nice, it does sound digital…for lack of a better term. I guess I shouldn’t expect anything else from a DIGItone…

#18

I would love to see a sound design video made by you or @taro !

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#19

I understand what you mean, it can growl like some analog filters can do but not to the goosebumbs level. It’s also always a bit mid rangy. Not bad because that fit’s nicely into mixes It’s FM’ed digital sound is mostly ear pearcjng in the higher frequencies so you automatically tend to filter those frequencies out, a thing that doesn’t apply with analog synths where you only filter frequencies because it fit’s the sound better, not to rescue a sound from unwanted overtones.

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#20

I’m gonna go outside the box and say Hydrasynth Explorer. Not too big, 37 semi weighted mid sized keys with poly after touch. A fantastic synth underneath that OT loves to sequence. Smaller than AK and DNK. Has a great arp that can do things even the fantastic OT arp cannot.

Subtractive, FM, Wavetable, solid V/A, excellent FX… worth the wait if you pre-order. I love my HS KB, and OT has been an ideal sequencer for it.

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