What’s the Law/Rules Around Using Samples

The Lounge General Discussion
#25

The situation about sampling got worst and worst the last 10 years-ish, from what I saw online and in the news. A lot more of copyright holders being super aggressive and going down on a lot of artists simply because right know a song can pop up in the charts more rapidly than before. And also, you have to remember that a lot of label are currently the holders of the rights no specially the artist and a lot of people are working on buying back-catalog here and there to consolidate their revenues because a lot of artists are not the owners of their masters.

Right now, there is a whole business industry around clearing samples from actors like Splice, specialized companies working on that for labels or artists and the creation of stock/royality-free sample library.

To be honest, the only advice that I have heard that seemed sounds : “If you can recognized the sample by any way (ear, AI) and you do not want troubles, clear it or change it”. If you don’t care, don’t want to, you do you and you will see. If it’s for friends and personal use (ie a shop must pay a fee to play FM radio inside, a family don’t have to), you do the fuck you want. If you want to distribute on streaming platform, sell it ; you decide which risks is worth taking. By the way, the algorithm on streaming platform are not that clever and sometimes they could block the original music instead of the ones from the samples (see this part of Ben Jordan FAQ about sampling his music and why it won’t accept demands to do it : https://youtu.be/toxEDf3885A?t=87 : obvious warning IANAL ; just random dude on the internet linking videos to youtube)

If you look at hip hop, you will see how a lot of the sampling part of making beat is mostly gone replaced by more electronic music techniques and sounds design ; it can be because of trends but also the lessons learned about the big copyright lawsuits that we saw in the US and Europe. Plunderphonics is more punk than punk now :ok_man:

#26

In a sense there’s no ‘threshold’ of what you can and can’t use. At heart you can’t use anything without permission. Simple as that. You can get away with a lot but take the risk of it being deleted/muted or being chased by a claims issue later on.

I often feel that sampling can be like science which incorporates information and history from elsewhere towards making something new, but of course copyright laws in music simply don’t work like this. Or in film either.

Fashion for example is quite different. I’ve had several designer friends get completely ripped off, ‘sampled’ in a sense by H&M and others, but you only need to change a few details and it’s no longer ‘yours.’

This is such a massive fascinating subject and I’m only touching on the surface here. Anyone familiar with the story of Bjork sampling my work without permission back in the 1990s might know what hell it can unleash too!

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#27

That is an Awesome story! Especially since i actually know the track so well…

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#28

Then this someone should sue the clouds … ot at last mother nature :joy:

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#30

And not sure how much of the full story you know, but it was complex mess on every level

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#31

This is good info, thanks.

What I’m still uncertain of is if you’re just sampling/lifting something like a snare hit from a funk record, by rights/law, does this need clearing? Is it a case of ‘no ones is going to challenge this?’ in reality?
And then, if that is the case, where would we say the dividing line is for this? Is it time based (as in 2-3 secs plus and you’ll need to clear it)? Is it more about it being an obvious sonic fingerprint?
For example, lets say you take a quick brass stab from Al Greens ‘Let’s Stay Together’, EQ it, manipulate it a bit, but you can still figure it out, but it’s 400ms long… what’s the likely situation? They’d come after you if it’s not cleared?

#32

Simply put at the most basic level. Even sampling a single hi-hat would be termed illegal use. It’s nothing to do with the length. You haven’t asked for permission, and therefore are breaking copyright law. But yes, you can do your utmost to manipulate it and process it too of course.

As for coming after you again it depends on how recognise something is, how much risk you want to take and what platforms you are sharing it on. All these are very personal decisions but on a very general level of course you could get away with sampling things, but it’s always wise to be cautious, unless you have a good lawyer of course :grinning:

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#33

Change pitch, slice & dice, reverse… or all of the above. See Burial, DJ Shadow, Public Enemy and so many other artists.

I know in America, the long-standing law is that lifting melodic content of 1 bar or longer is considered infringement. I will defer to the Vanilla Ice’s scholarly explanation for getting around that:

He was actually sued by Bowie and Queen, but only to get the (obvious) songwriting credit. Different times…

#34

Awesome use of that clip :slight_smile:

#35

What a twat :exploding_head:

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#36

reminds me a bit of this article i read this weekend after seeing it mentioned elsewhere. it’s long and tedious but touches on what constitutes fair use vs. plagiarism. other variables are at play in that example.

two other pieces that came to mind here are this paul simon interview where he basically admits to ripping off gospel artists and using chord progressions from bach in his most famous song ever.

and people are probably familiar with bob james getting his money after years of people sampling his stuff. i have mixed feelings about his stance but understand it. he at least seems to welcome sampling in the context of musical creativity, as long as he gets paid.

i suppose there’s a distinction to make about a derivative work or something “inspired by” or “in the spirit of” vs. outright copying.

#37

and most importantly don’t forget that just because an artist used a sample, it doesn’t automatically mean they DIDN’T get permission. Perhaps they haven’t been sued because they actually got clearance, etc.

For example in the Bjork sample case with myself she also sampled Led Zeppelin, Nirvana and many others and just paid them off. There are no credits on the sleeve reporting this. I know as I have all the legal documents from the time. So something to be aware of.

And with Burial he’s sampled lots of YouTube and places and managed to keep under the radar, but you don’t know if a sample case has followed through of course as it’s not necessarily public knowledge

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