What is your "Goldilocks" wavetable synth hardware?

cutlery · 2023-04-16T13:27:07.253Z

I’ve been looking for the wavetable synth that is just right for what feels like a year now, and it has grown frustrating. By all means, give me GAS for something, because I am starting to wonder if WT synthesis is even something I like (in hardware). The idea? Sure. The reality? I don’t know. They are at once easier to use than FM but also weirdly constrained - you can plot a course in FM, but with WT you’re hunting for a wavetable or section of a wavetable that you can work with, and if your hardware has only a limited set of them, you’ll eventually run out. Granted, that could take a long time, and is isn’t something I think about with basic subtractive synths.

I’ve had a few WT synths over the last couple years: Gone are the modwave, hydrasynth, argon8m, summit. Still present are the Pro 3 (wavetables aren’t the main event), Pro 2 (mostly a curiosity right now, but a neat take on it), and 3rd wave. There were things I liked about the Argon, but I had the module and at the time was moving towards devices with keybeds.

I’m not sure the 3rd wave is staying. which would leave me without a WT poly. Maybe an Argon8 is in the cards (again), this time in 37 key form. I’ve considered a Virus several times but the price point is a little high for this use case for me (and it seems both a bit fiddly to edit with the small screen and also mostly a VA synth with wavetables as a garnish).

I don’t know why but for some reason playing with wavetables in hardware is often worse than doing so in software, not better. Hardware sometime feels like a step back - am I the only one?

Tchu · 2023-04-16T13:59:16.802Z

Waldorf M.

But I’ll say if you didn’t like any of the aforementioned, chances are that you dislike Wavetable Synths on HW.

percussionboy · 2023-04-16T14:20:07.560Z

cutlery:

. . . playing with wavetables in hardware is often worse than doing so in software, but better.

What does this mean?

cutlery · 2023-04-16T14:24:31.056Z

The “but better” shouldn’t be there, edited.

It feels more clunky in hardware.

Laser · 2023-04-16T14:28:04.166Z

When you get used to being able to use/load any wavetable in your collection - then any hardware which limits the amount or type of wavetables does feel constraining.

percussionboy · 2023-04-16T14:37:09.367Z

cutlery:

The “but better” shouldn’t be there, edited.

It feels more clunky in hardware.

Ah, got it.

If we’re talking about a hardware WT synth with a good visual interface for dealing with the wavetables, I’m having trouble thinking of one. Do Iridium and Quantum do that?

Maybe software simply is the best answer if that’s what you want.

Re goldilocks, I like the M, the Blofeld, and the Peak (with the Novation online WT-building app), each for its core sound.

I’m a wavetable simpleton, I just fish for an interesting texture and then mod and filter it til it sounds good.

cutlery · 2023-04-16T14:41:11.278Z

percussionboy:

(But I’m a wavetable simpleton, just fish for an interesting texture and then apply the subtractive engine, filter etc, to it.)

Maybe I’m a wavetable simpleton, too!

I felt like with the modwave and argon I needed to partially rely on software to sift through wavetables for either visual display on the argon or a better way to select different tables while relying on the analyzer on the modwave. At least with the Argon they were few enough you’d have a couple of go-to tables memorized, so maybe the limits there are really a plus. The 3rd wave is pretty good at displaying the wavetable and its funky wave surfer knob is interesting, but the way it displays the table is a series of single cycles side by side rather than a 3d wavetable (vital, serum) or a morphing wave (modwave analyzer, argon).

I guess the display isn’t really the most important thing anyway as the sound is pretty clear, but at some point it becomes like hunting for samples in a pretty huge library, only all the samples are longer than you’d use most of the time so you are really hunting for slices of those samples, and the physical layout of the synth can make this clunker than it needs to be.

Jukka · 2023-04-16T15:21:59.846Z

With the 3rd Wave from Groove Synthesis do you like sampling to make your own wave tables ?

That skill would take some practice to develop i think. It would interest me to try a lot of varied samples as input to gain understanding how that affects the output tables.

Then examination of the differences with the sampling wavetable synths, whether they be a hardware synth or a software synth may be helpful too.

( Not sure what causes the difference, given the hardware wavetable synths, are all at core software based. )

SoundRider · 2023-04-16T15:29:18.359Z

It’s interesting that a 3rd wave or a hydrasynth are not what seems to satisfy you.

I wonder, what do you expect/need/want from a wavetable synth?

As polyphonic hardware instruments I use my Virus or Blofeld, which are quite versatile. In the Eurorack world I found some very interesting modules. They are monophonic but great for sound-design.

cutlery · 2023-04-16T15:34:57.516Z

The UI is the biggest difference, I think, other than maybe the analog filters in some examples (and I don’t think it’s that).

I’ve been messing around with the 3rd Wave’s import features and they’re ok. It is somewhat specific about the format for a loaded .wav over usb (not that big a deal), and the audio line in is… interesting? You really have to crank the output of whatever you line in for it to be loud enough, and if you start with something with mostly pleasant harmonics that’s what you’ll get back out.

This is a simple wavetable made from Factory Bank1 Preset1 of the Take5, effect switched off, just a short press of an E.

Edit: whoops, wrong clip, that was a wavetable I snagged from Vital, this one is the Take5

And that’s neat (though still really, really quiet, - I’ve cheated and normalized the recording). Osc envelope set to do a simple slow sweep of the wavetable. Oh, and a little bit of saturation into the filter, but that was mostly for volume. Filter nearly fully wide open.

SoundRider:

I wonder, what do you expect/need/want from a wavetable synth?

Pads mostly, I suppose. Also sometimes pluck sounds; I find that wavetables can make a very harpsichord like (but distinctly not a harpsichord) pluck, and the harmonic content in the right wavetable makes for a very nice attack sound if swept quickly.

qqq · 2023-04-16T15:36:22.094Z

Drambo on iPad. Wavetable support is one of the best parts. But I guess it doesn’t really count as hardware.

SoundRider · 2023-04-16T15:42:56.818Z

cutlery:

I guess the display isn’t really the most important thing anyway as the sound is pretty clear, but at some point it becomes like hunting for samples in a pretty huge library

Agree - but there is a way out - just take some time, try to figure out, what those wavetables sound like, by slowly moving the index forward/backward. It’s more comfortable if there is a waveform display, because we can match “image” and “sound” and recall this kind of correlation. I hope this makes sense

Many wavetables seem to have:

sweeps like sin to square, sin to harmonics like a drawbar organ,
sweeps from one traditional analogue waveform to others
sweeps of filters and/or resonance etc.
sweeps from clean sounds to noisy
bellish sounds of different timbres
mixture of different timbres provided in intervals, sometimes A/B/A/B
rebuilt of an instrumental sound like a plucked string
a series of vowel/formant like waveforms

IMO it takes a lot of time to study the wavetables and to memorize what’s inside - and most important - to develop some feeling, how to make unique use of them. But this time invested pays off with timbres, we can not do with other synths.

SoundRider · 2023-04-16T15:45:39.314Z

cutlery:

Pads mostly, I suppose. Also sometimes pluck sounds; I find that wavetables can make a very harpsichord like (but distinctly not a harpsichord) pluck, and the harmonic content in the right wavetable makes for a very nice attack sound if swept quickly.

This should be possible with many decent wavetable synths. Just identify the table with the most pleasing “sweep” properties for a pad and go from there. Some chorus/ensemble and a good chunk of reverb will do the rest

For the harpsychord like sound I suggest just a waveform with the right timbre and do the rest with the envelope/VCA part.

Jukka · 2023-04-16T15:50:19.210Z

cutlery:

I’ve been messing around with the 3rd Wave’s import features

You’ve identified a lot of factors that affect the wavetables output, both on the technical side of it, and the artistic ones. I think you are on the verge, of breakthrough with that, if you press on and try other sounds and experiment. Try some things unexpected.

From others here : what other wavetable synths let you create your own tables from samples ? I think the Waldorf Quantim and Iridium can do that. What others ?

cutlery · 2023-04-16T15:58:39.195Z

Jukka:

From others here : what other wavetable synths let you create your own tables from samples ? I think the Waldorf Quantim and Iridium can do that. What others ?

You can use the waveedit fork that was made compatible with the modwave, but that’s still external software: Releases · jeremybernstein/modwaveEdit · GitHub

Not really the same thing.

Jeanne · 2023-04-16T17:43:29.124Z

cutlery:

By all means, give me GAS for something, because I am starting to wonder if WT synthesis is even something I like (in hardware).

After reading and listening, I wonder if something like Prophet, Deepmind, etc.* is more satisfying. Building a sound from scratch and shaping it by hand until it sounds like what you have in mind.

*

(*or the Hydrasynth but using just the basic waves like saw, which is what I actually do most of the time.)

cutlery · 2023-04-16T18:13:33.830Z

I ultimately passed on the Hydrasynth because I used it as a basic VA synth most of the time (and sometimes as an FM synth), the wave morphing was interesting but many of the supplied wavetables weren’t that useful for me (and it was the desktop, I think I’d prefer the 49-key version).

Something about how it interpolated between the 8 selected waves struck me as strange, but I might not have spent enough time with that side of it. Wave morphing is a different take on WT really, and your interpolated steps might be wildly different based on the waves you pick. I guess you can setting on a few waves you particularly like and use it that way - wanted to be able to pick the 1st and 8th position and have it interpolate across all steps but that didn’t work (so felt, to me, a bit steppy between waves 1 and 2 if that’s all I wanted to use).

StudioES · 2023-04-16T18:20:40.107Z

You gotta try out a Waldorf Microwave I or II (or XT/XTk). Sounds a lot different than the Blofeld. Rawer.

Jeanne · 2023-04-16T18:42:12.230Z

cutlery:

I ultimately passed on the Hydrasynth because I used it as a basic VA synth most of the time (and sometimes as an FM synth)

Not sure if you are replying to me, but my point was: Not using wavetables may lead faster to the goal

ReverseGroove · 2023-04-16T22:34:49.257Z

The Waldorf Microwave XT is my favorite wavetable synth, but I do not own one and the Waldorf M fills the void well enough.

I also have desktop versions of the ASM Hydrasynth and Waldorf Blofeld. Both are solid synths, but I do not prefer them over the M.