(VIDEO) SRC3 LED remains continuously lit

missingtwin · 2014-11-11T17:26:06.000Z

I’m just now understanding how to consistently reproduce this problem I’m having.

On the Recording Setup page 1, setting SRC3 to anything other than
“-” will show the level at which intertrack sampling will occur (by way
of the LED near the MIDI button). This is normal operation.

If I keep a track’s SRC3 input as active and move to another track
and try to record from that track’s SRC3 input, the LED remains
lit a constant red. This happens even if the SRC3 for each of the tracks
is different.

It’s as if the red light gets stuck on a constant red color.

After the light gets stuck, going back and changing the SRC3 inputs on
all tracks to “-” does nothing to the light. It stays red.

The only way to get it to go off and again monitor the intertrack sampling
input on SRC3 is to reboot the machine.

Interestingly, the function is not affected. The machine still samples from
the selected SRC3 but the input level monitoring is broken.

Can anyone else confirm this behavior for me? Am I doing something
wrong here?

Thanks!!!

missingtwin · 2014-11-11T18:27:31.000Z

updating to the new OS 1.25D seems to have cured
the problem i was having with the SRC3 level LED.

that was nice timing!

missingtwin · 2014-11-13T01:03:42.000Z

I spoke too soon apparently.
Just now the damn Input level light
got stuck on again.

I loves this octatrack thing but this is
kinda fuckin annoying.

Anyone else have this problem?

avantronica · 2014-11-13T10:49:51.000Z

I’ve not seen or read about this, but perhaps you could specify the sources that you are using (I know you say any, but specifically which ones) also, do you perhaps have a looping delay on the sourced track that is in feedback howl. I often sample tracks I cannot hear, so it may not be obvious, also can you comment on the levels and recorder trig methods etc. I’m curious to try , sounds more like a software issue that ought to affect everyone

missingtwin · 2014-11-13T19:24:31.000Z

thanks for trying to help avantronica.

i first noticed this issue when practicing for my first show
with the OT.

I had a microphone going into inputs A/B.

Track 1 was a flex machine listeing to the A/B inputs
and assigned to its own buffer - everything fine so far.

Track 2 was a flex (with different rec and sample trigs) assined to
track 1 rec buffer - everything fine so far.

Track 3 was a pick-up machine assined to cue so that i could
punch in little snippets of my voice and keep overlapping them
in real time.

I would transition to scene B when i got something cool and
then start the looping process again and fade back to the new
material on scene A.

Actually this worked perfectly for a while. The SRC3 light for the
pickup machine was fine. I did some other stuff on tracks 5-8
but I can’t remember - but the SRC3 level light was working fine i remember.

At some point i noticed the SRC3 light was a continuous red. no flickering
just constant. It only goes off if I put all SRC3 inputs on all tracks to “-”

The only other way to get it to reset to normal function is to reboot.
I had to reboot 2 times during that show!

It’s not a continuous delay (good idea tho). And I thought maybe it was a feedback loop but can’t see how b/c it works fine until - it doesn’t. It seems to happen randomly, but it only happens when i have SRC3 assigned to anything on more than one track’s rec buffer.

Loaded the new OS. Everythign seemed fine for a while. I did notice that if i assign a neighboor machine to a track -and assign another track’s record buffer to the original track (the one before the neighboor) the SRC3 light would be constant red - but it wouldn’t happen as described above. But now it’s doing it again.

Tried the empty reset, hardware check…

i’m ready to love this thing, made some amazingly disturbing fart sounds at the show (mentioned above), well better than any live farts i’ve ever made previously. but I had to reboot and stop the farts! Twice!

avantronica · 2014-11-13T22:29:04.000Z

When I read a forum problem I don’t quite understand I like to have a go as it usually uncovers an understanding of how to do something I hadn’t considered or it takes me off in new directions getting into it. This has an element of that, but whilst it seems clear (and detailed) to you and may be obvious to others I can’t see the obvious problem.

But it seems you have some sessions where it isn’t manifesting as a soft/hardware issue. That in itself makes it hard to test accurately as it would need to b the simplest repeatable configuration to replicate the problem. One thing that isn’t obvious to me is how you are using the cue though, are you using it as a bus to sample from or as outs.

I’ll certainly give the elements of the routing I understand a go to see if it gives some inspiration as to the cause. In the meantime hopefully an octatrack guru will spot what’s up.

Is there any chance the issue is mic fbk related, if it’s a ‘software’ issue it shouldn’t matter how the signals are getting in unless peaky inputs are triggering some metering issue.

Plus it may be a hardware issue, that’s why you need to table a repeatable route to recreating it or hope that it maks sense to someone reading it

missingtwin · 2014-11-14T19:49:12.000Z

thanks for the helpful suggestions.

i’ve yet to find a method of reliably reproducing the
symptom (the steady red light for SRC3) of whatever
the underlying root cause of this happens to be…

it only happens (when it does happen) when
at least two SRC3 inputs are set (to anything).

Baddcr: the red light will only go off if I turn all
SRC3s for all tracks to “-” and yes, it will come back on steady red
with no input monitoring
again if any of the tracks’ SRC3s (tracks, main,
or cue) are activated, even if there is no sound going
at all, OT’s sequencer stopped.

Once this “stuck” light comes on, the only way to get it
off, besides turning all SRC3s to “-” is to reboot.

missingtwin · 2014-11-25T18:46:42.000Z

I’ve made a video demonstrating what happens to my machine.
I think I was not correct in my previous attempts to nail this down.

It seems that if you feed the SRC3 input too much signal, the light will get stuck on and further level monitoring via SRC3 light is not possible.

In the video:

tracks 1-7 are sent to CUE.

Track 8 is a flex machine assigned to its own buffer with a couple record and sample trigs in place.

You can see as i cycle through the tracks on SRC3 that the level is indicated and the flex machine picks up that track.

When i get to CUE where all the tracks are sent, it monitors the level for a second and then goes to the steady red.

I tried to show how moving back through the other selections does not change the light - it’s just stuck.

I reboot the OT and it again monitors the level until i get to CUE and then it’s stuck again.

Can someone try to reproduce this issue on their machine?

missingtwin · 2014-11-29T11:27:29.000Z

I feel pushy to keep bringing this up but I
honestly can’t understNd why many of you
are not screaming at the top of your lungs
about this.

It doesn’t make the machine unusable, but if you
are using this for live resampling primarily. It
destroys the workflow.

Elektron finly got back to my service request on their
website. After waiting almost four weeks and providing
lots of detail and video how to make this issue occur I’m not sure
what I was expecting but I got one sentence.

Something like “I have reproduced this bug and sent it to
the developers”.

So WTF? Does anyone do live resampling around here?
How do you overcome the fucking glaring problem of having,
For example, to sample from the main outs but getting there reauires
you to momentarily pass through all 8 tracks as inputs. Whoooops. One of
the tracks is playing kinda hot! Boom. No more internal sampling meter!

I have one of the new batch of OTs. This is the second one I’ve had. The first one
I sent back to the retailer thinking that since no one here has this same issue,
it must be the hardware (and my window of exchange was about to close). No word
from elektron then so I sent back. New one does the same thing.

missingtwin · 2014-11-29T14:22:29.000Z

Yes u are right baddcr, my frustration mounted over
the weeks I was waiting for a response from elektron.

If you sample internally on the OT this bug should be
easy to reveal.

Just assign some samples to the tracks that are
recorded hot, not clipping, but on the high overall level side.
Send them all to CUE

Set one of the record buffers to SRC3 CUE.

If the input level on SRC3 to the record buffer gets too
high it breaks the SRC3 level meter. Simple as that.

You may wonder what’s the big deal. Even if it is broken the light
is admittedly just a general indication of level and not precise or anything.

But it lets you know that something is there and generally what the amplitude
envelope is of what you are trying to sample.

I e done two live shows with the OT. Both of them I just used a microphone
into A/B and used live resampling to make beats/noises/etc.
in a live situation with a mic it’s hard to always control the level and when resampling g
I hit the SRC3 input too hard. Level light broken. I had to restart two times
during that show. Not good.

the second time I watched my levels and kept them on the low side.
Only one time did the light break at the beginning of the show but I bumped down
my levels more and it worked ok. Signal to noise was def worse tho.

I’d rather the light work and be able to clip the hell out of the SRC3 input
if I want to.

bluewolfse7en · 2014-11-29T17:21:17.000Z

Watching this thread with interest. Unfortunately I’m away from my OT for a while so I can’t get hands on.
That said, I internally sample all the time & Ive never encountered this.
If Elektron have identified it as a a bug though then fingers crossed we’ll see an update soon.

avantronica · 2014-11-30T10:36:08.000Z

Well done finding a bug and getting it confirmed, the whole issue of gain management is nuanced in the OT, so it’s likely you have used it in a way that’s non-typical of most and revealed something. Best just be glad your unit isn’t bricked and wait for some future update, but the fact that it’s not frequently reproduced may not hasten the fix, good spot

missingtwin · 2014-11-30T11:24:05.000Z

I first noticed this thing when following the various
tutorials online (transition trick etc). I can say with
confidence that when I did first identify it as a problem,
I wasn’t doing anything that hundreds of other users
hadn’t done

I appreciate you OT veterans taking a look at this for me.
But something’s not right here. For example I can see
avantronica you are groping for an explanation to how
this could be happening to only me, but I’m not using the
gain structure in a nuanced way. This bug doesn’t require that
level of skill/complication. Simply sample something internally
at a high enough level. Done. Meter broken. I can make it
happen consistently without intermittency.

One explanation is that this only happens to the new batch of
octatracks.

Hopefully one of you guys can confirm this for me. Sample something
with a high level. Make the SRC3 light hit the red. Does it break the light?
Mine does.

avantronica · 2014-11-30T14:25:51.000Z

""Baddcr"":

[quote=“missingtwin”] Simply sample something internally
at a high enough level. Done. Meter broken. I can make it
happen consistently without intermittency.

Sample something
with a high level. Make the SRC3 light hit the red. Does it break the light?
Mine does.

OK, I totally get that it can take a good while to track something down and no criticism at all, but this is a heck of a lot easier to understand!

Tomorrow I should be able to check :)[/quote]
Okay done, as mentioned well done for tracking a confirmed bug, but to be fair to us normal users (i ain’t no OT guru) it takes some serious amount of gain abuse to make it happen, at least when sampling from one internal track, i replicated by boosting playback gain and assigning a high gain eq and high gain compressor, by putting the scenes to use on the compressor gain i could loop recoding and watch the lights clip and fall, clip and fall, until i pushed the gain too far (trust me though, this was crunchy as f¥@k) and the led light would no longer dim, even on the silent parts of the sampled track or if i changed source, so yeah, it cripples the src ‘meter’ until a reboot for that particular channel which was recording, but not others. Well done spotting this bug, but you’re definitely pushing the gain if perhaps by virtue of sampling a whole bunch of tracks, that may justifiably be loud, so it’s reasonable to assume the captured audio will be very hot, but it is clearly a bug that leads to the light staying constant, it’s not that surprising to me it’s not been heavily reported, but, again, well done finding it, let’s wait and see if it’s sorted

missingtwin · 2014-11-30T22:33:19.000Z

Haha. Yes baddcr I went all the way around the bend to try
and explain this one.
avantronica. Thank u for taking s look at this.
I will def check once again but Im puzzled now.
That src3 meter will break on me if I even fly by
a track that’s somewhat loud on my way to MAIN or
CUE. By the time I get there the light is busted.

It def doesn’t take anything like the gain abuse you
described to make it happen. And when this happens to my machine, it’s
every SRC3 input on every tracks record buffer. On
pickup machines too.

I will try to make another video demonstration that’s a bit more clear and
to the point.

avantronica · 2014-11-30T23:09:05.000Z

Hmm, the first video demonstration really does not look abnormal at all, when I replicated it required taking the audio well into the crunch - I had a different track configuration, I recorded into the first track the audio from the second or the cued second, src3 light on the second was not lit when I looked, just froze on the first track ! It’s possible my source audio was internally sampled from ins which applies a 12dB cut to a unity signal, so my levels may have been lower than yours especially if you normalised or imported normalised audio into the feeding tracks the plot thickens !