VIDEO: oscilloscope (edited post)

subduct · 2021-05-27T04:52:38.004Z

Resurrecting this thread after being blown away by that Clark video with a couple of questions:

All the links in the thread seem to be dead, does anyone know any current information on Adoxo/Phosphorfordummies?
This is a current YT channel for Jerobeam Fenderson: www.youtube.com/user/jerobeamfenderson1
If I was getting a scope is Tektronix the way to go - 2225?

I’m thinking this would be a great application for those unused OT cue outs, an audio track straight to scope XY

evanh41 · 2021-05-27T07:30:15.181Z

Any old scope will work just fine; leader, Tektronix, as long as it’s got dedicated XY and Z (brightness) inputs and a removable graticule, you should be able to coax lovely oscillographics from…

I personally fell quite deep and modified several vectrex consoles to do this sorta thing with a dedicated modular system and open source pure data patches…

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subduct · 2021-05-27T13:37:40.008Z

Those look amazing @evanh41!
Cheers for the reply. I found a Tektronix 2225 going near me so I want to go and test it. I was hoping to use my phone to play audio through a 3.5mm - twin BNC cable to check its working - reasonable do you think? I’d have to buy the cable.

The seller does have cables with it but I am not an engineer (yet) and don’t know what to do with those…

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@Cocker struggling a bit to find 3.5mm stereo to twin BNC, do you know where your image is from please?

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evanh41 · 2021-05-27T13:54:38.504Z

Get a bunch of BNC to RCA adapters. Then adapt RCA to 1/4” or 1/8” or whatever your input is.

That’s the easiest solution, unless you can still find 1/8 to BNC in a length that’ll work.

If that Tektroniks can still display an XY over those probes you’re probably good to go and ready to take the dive.

PekeDorty · 2021-05-27T13:55:34.214Z

Google BNC Cinch/RCA adapter

I always wanted an oscilloscope! So what should we buy / what do we need?

As a starter I can recommend the OSCI Studio

https://oscilloscopemusic.com/oscistudio.php

You can generate WAVs from 3D shapes (with a blender plugin or from OBJ directly) which then can be used to draw on an analog oscilloscope (I guess )

FreddyUnreal · 2021-05-27T13:55:41.854Z

Can someone explain what MHz range is acceptable and what limitations lower or higher MHz scopes would have? I’ve seen scopes as low as 15MHz. I am a total noob to this and only has piqued my interest as this thread was rejuvenated.

evanh41 · 2021-05-27T14:06:26.739Z

On proper scientific oscilloscopes, the bandwidth is generally quite high, so high that you can do what is called “scan processing”, where you can visibly recall an image over an xy display and contort into what’s known as the “rutt etra” effect.

It’s possible on the vectrex, but tends to muddy up and filter out. But any old eurorack oscillator or audio will be perfectly suitable.

evanh41 · 2021-05-27T14:08:03.851Z

For reference on oscillographics/ vector synthesis, there’s a whole book on the subject and how to interface.

https://macumbista.net/?page_id=5711

FreddyUnreal · 2021-05-27T14:12:33.244Z

Thanks for the explanation! So if I’m understanding correctly the bandwidth size for audio or CV we would use in general can be relatively low? Is 15Mhz too low? Found one for pretty cheap.

PekeDorty · 2021-05-27T14:22:21.584Z

Vector Hack Festival

YouTube

Vector Hack Festival

Vector Hack is the biannual international festival devoted to experimental analogue vector graphics. Vector Hack aims to gather artists creating experimental audio-visual work for oscilloscopes, lasers and drawing machines to share ideas and develop...

Seems like a superb youtube channel / festival for inspiration / knowledge etc.

evanh41 · 2021-05-27T15:00:25.244Z

yesssss. the vectorhack channel, festival and community around it is incredible.

I always reference back to some of those talks, and actually had a chance this last year to exhibit some of my work in Croatia for the festival.

subduct · 2021-05-27T16:08:46.756Z

Thanks @PekeDorty @evanh41, so I’ve got 2xBNC to RCA female adapters, and I’ve got twin RCA to 3.5mm stereo. I’m going to plug any sound source (phone probably) into the XY channels on the scope with this and I should see vertical/horizontal traces from playing any music?
Or do I need to feed it with something more specific?

[EDIT] OR - is there a way just to get the scope to put out some test traces without connections, that’s all I need really

I don’t think I can test it with the probes, neither of us having any circuits/boards/electronics projects…

Lots of resources for me to read, thanks to all who have posted since my necro-revival. Elektronauts shows why it’s my favourite forum once again.

[EDIT 2] - and this video gives me my answer, this should work. I really should learn to finish researching BEFORE posting in over-excitement

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vrCjeQGavSE

Bilzc10

3 years ago (edited)

If anyone wants to connect their computer to their oscilloscope, instead of soldering your probes to a 3.5mm jack, buy 2 BNC (male) to RCA adapters, put them in the BNC connectors on the oscilloscope that correspond with X and Y. Then buy an RCA to 3.5mm adapter, which will take a 3.5mm input, and split it into a left and right RCA output, which then plug into the BNC to RCA adapters. The 3.5mm jack can be plugged into any audio source, and the sound will show on the oscilloscope

evanh41 · 2021-05-27T16:36:30.405Z

Yea you got it. It’s all voltage. Have fun.

subduct · 2021-05-27T16:41:01.570Z

evanh41:

Have fun.

Already am, thanks!

Jukka · 2021-05-27T16:48:29.868Z

FreddyUnreal:

Is 15Mhz too low?

This specification has to do if you are using the scope to plot voltage levels versus time. To do the drawings like you’ve seen above you need to use the scope in the X Y mode. Think of it like an Etch-A-Sketch, with two separate signals going to the two knobs. What gets drawn on the EAS has to do with the rhythmic frequency relationships of the two signals.

subduct:

playing any music?
Or do I need to feed it with something more specific?

What you’ll want to feed the X an Y are signals much less complex than music, or all you’ll get is a hash. But you also want feed it something more complex than two harmonically related sine waves, though that’s fine, you’ll get a nice lissajous pattern from that. If you have one signal that is varying at audio rates relative to the other, that will allow you to paint interesting images on the screen. Patching modular gear is one way to generate two signals with unusual repetitive voltage relationships to each other. Adding some noise to a signal fuzzes stuff up and paints more solid regions.

Modular simulators like VCV Rack is another, and you can use the scopes built in to that software. Plus then you can add color to it all, check out this video:

BTW: 15 MHz is 15 million cycles per second. That’s the rate the scope is able to distinguish. Audio goes to 20 thousand cycles per second. Big difference. So to see a wave on an voltage-time plot you turn a dial on the scope to slow your display rate way-way down.

ADDED: Another way to generate these sorts of images is to use a spread sheet and somehow (it’s up to you how) generate two columns of numbers that have a relationship to each other and plot that in XY. It’s basically the same thing, just done in different way.

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PekeDorty · 2021-05-27T18:02:51.671Z

Jukka:

generate two columns of numbers that have a relationship to each other and plot that in XY. It’s basically the same thing, just done in different way.

could you rephrase / explain it like I‘m 5?

blurrghost · 2021-05-27T19:22:31.702Z

There’s a super low budget diy-ish device you can make that will give you more or less the same results. Sort of an audio responsive pseudo-scope toy made from old crt devices (though some types work better than others) and it can even be applied to some kinds of projectors though those are getting hard to find.
It’s a fairly simple mod and the principle is neat, just don’t touch the part that kills you. No, really, that’s a thing. I don’t want to derail the thread but if people want I can explain it and it’s small handful of variations on the same basic theme.

subduct · 2021-05-27T20:08:59.291Z

Jukka:

Patching modular gear is one way to generate two signals with unusual repetitive voltage relationships to each other.

This is also my plan.

Jukka · 2021-05-27T21:06:11.033Z

PekeDorty:

could you rephrase

Sure PeteDorky — but you’re a very precocious 5 y.o.

A computer spreadsheet is a program that lets you generate volumes of data, based on other data and mathematical formulas, and then it can make pictures from that data. One way to make a picture is draw and connect a series of points that you place on an X, Y graph.

If the X’s are generated from Sine (a), and the Y’s are generated by Sine (3a), the graph will be a lissajous curve with three bumps on one side and one bump on the other.

To see what that lissajous curve looks like go to this web-site and enter 1 for a, and 3 for b. This web-site is even better for experimentation for making lissajous curves than using a spreadsheet. But you can do other more complicated formulas with a spreadsheet. There are many other programs that allows you to enter mathematical formulas and make graphs as well.

Try entering 2 for a, and 3 for b.

You could set up an analog modular system that would do the calculations just like at this web-site, and be able to actively modulate the various parameters you see here, and generate the data to be graphed on an oscilliscope. It is sometimes useful to think of an analog modular system as an analog computer.

FreddyUnreal · 2021-05-28T13:54:44.451Z

This is a great explanation. Thank you for taking the time. This gets more intriguing by the day.