Using OT for backing tracks

Elektron Gear Octatrack
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Man, it’s been a real struggle to find a sensible way to handle long samples. All we want to do is playback mixdowns (with some parts removed) and have them play in sync. I thought I was finally on to something and then discovered that slice points can’t be p-locked in separate sequences. WTF? Four parts is not enough to do it. Isnt there a simple way to play back song length tracks you’ve produced and get them playing on the OT without pulling your hair out?

Our ultimate goal is to send a click out to the drummer, and have the backing tracks playing in sync. Anyone doing that with an OT?

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Hi Soltec,
I´ll try to help you out explaining my workflow, I successfully worked onstage before with backing tracks in different ways… let me know a bit more of info from your setup and live approach.

When you say “All we want to do is playback mixdowns (with some parts removed) and have them play in sync”, you mean a couple of different stereo files (which make up the track) playing in sync simultaneously? or in order to mix betwen different tracks?

There are a few different solutions depending on your needs, but for sure it migh be one that fits you!

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what do you mean exactly? slice number can be plocked like any other parameter.
I think the most straightforward way to work with long samples is to use one-shot trigs. then you can let the sequencer run (and output the OT metronome to your drummer if you want), and rearm the trigs when you’re ready to switch to the next pattern/slice/etc…
also, there are 64 parts per project. not sure what your needs are, but that should get you pretty far without having to stop the sequencer.

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Thank you guys! Ok, I’ll try to be more specific now that I have your attention. :wink:

I am still a bit new to the OT, but not new to sampling, sequencing midi, desktop DAWS, etc. (20+ years in audio tech)

So, ultimately I envision setting up entire performances/sets with a static playlist (Arranger). (I’d like to explore changing song order on the fly later.) The arranger is needed to change tempos over the course of the set. (only way to modulate tempo inside a given project) Regarding the use of one-shots - Ideally, I don’t want to have to remember to re-arm tracks. We will be busy enough playing instruments, mashing buttons, turning knobs.

My current plan was to slice up each song (extending the total song length to be easily divisible by 16) and put a p-lock for each slice on a corresponding sequence number for a given bank. Each sequence is 16 bars in length. So, lets say I want to setup the song on bank 3, the first step on each sequence is set to the appropriate slice number. Seq1-step1=plock:slice1, Seq2-step1=plock:slice2, Seq3-step1=plock:slice3, etc., etc.
However - when I start seq1 and then trigger seq2 to start after seq1 finishes, slice #2 does not play as expected. WTF? I have the sample and slice parameter locked on the first step. If I stop the sequencer and re start, the correct slice plays back, but not during a live pattern switch! I can’t imagine WHY Elektron designed it this way. Does it mean I have to manually slice the song up into separate files? I really thought I was finally on to something and then no p-locking slices across disparate sequences? Argh.

I am willing to compromise a bit to make this work, but now you should have a clearer picture of what I’m facing/trying-to-accomplish.

Many thanks for all your help!

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Hi Ok so lets go in parts.

Firstly the reason why the sample is not changing is because you haven´t p-locked the sample slot (maybe Im wrong) hold the trigger and press the keys up or down to scroll troguh the samples, that should P-lock the sample to the trigger… You must do the same for each Pattern corresponding sample.

If you dont want to change the structure of your track but have it playing as Backtrack… you dont have to slice it… as Rhizome has suggested… You must use One-shot tiggers…

Example: Imagine your tracks length is 200 bars, you will set Pattern 1 “Master length” to 16th… This way you could jump to any other patter or bank within 1 bar. You must use a ONE-SHOT trigger which will trigger the sample once and will continue yo play untill it finishes…

Now in the arranger view, you will set up Pattern 1 to have a duration of 200 bars. In the arranger you can set up a lot of things automatically, BPM, Scenes, Parts, extremely handy and for me a Must for Live situation.

Depending on how many tracks you have for the whole Concert, you might have to Re-arm the tracks just once… You can have pattern one 1 one long sample on track 1, pattern 2 with a long sample in track 2 and so on… You could do this up to 8 tracks without having to re-arm.

Am i going in the right direction? if not let me know, and see other options… as there are plenty!! :slight_smile:

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You could take a look at the Arranger feature. From the manual, p. 107.

An arrangement is basically a number of patterns played in sequence. Each row in an arrangement can have settings for pattern offset and length, scene assignments, tempo and mute. You can also loop segments of an arrangement or jump between arrangement rows. All this makes for a very powerful way of arranging your patterns. An arrangement can be up to 256 rows of length and each project can host 8 arrangements.

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@multiman

Thanks so much for your help! We’re getting closer… :wink:

I am almost certain I have p-locked the sample slot in addition to the slice, but I’ll double check. I sure hope I can get this to work! Multiman, would you mind trying this and see if you have the same issue? (if needed I guess I’ll manually chop shit up)

So, lets discuss the one-shot approach again - Filling up each track to host each mixdown (to avoid re-arming) seems wasteful. I was hoping to get creative with other tracks for various purposes. Ideally, I’d like to dedicate Track 1 for the sample play back and 2 neighbors (T2,T3) for FX work and 'plays free" mode seqs (on T2 and T3) for FX modulation (not to mention the scenes). I really want to get around the “re-arm” one-shot approach if possible.

The pattern “offset” in the arranger has me thinking…
Could I simply make sure sample attributes are correct for tempo and length, and then use the arranger to trigger from bar 72, for example?

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Hi, I never used the offset but I guess your are correct.

I got another idea, based on a setup I did on my first Gig with the OT. Depending in what type of transition you want to have betwen tracks this might be suitable for you…

What I did was to have my Song separated in to 4 Stereo Files asigned to T1,T2,T3,T4… the rest for Thru and free playing… for wider mangling of elements instead of just 1 file with Neighbour machines… but anyway, I basically used one Bank per Song, Pattern A-Bank A was the first song, I created a Pattern B (Bank A) assigned to PART2 with a special Transition pattern where I had now some samples of the next track to blend in…

Once I am satisfied and the mix done I would switch to Bank B - Pattern A where again just the Song numer 2 will play… same process once the Song reaches the end it enters in to the Pattern B with PART2 assigned with different samples for mixing… then BANK C - Pattern A for Song three and so on…

Maybe is confusing but you could use the same aproach and this system allows you to not re arm. Kind off Each Pattern has its own PART.

Maybe I can try to explain it better, or just focused on your example… :slight_smile:
Hope it helps!

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if you don’t want to use one-shots, you can set the tempo multiplier to 1/4 to get 16 bars to a pattern.

try setting your amp envelope release to 0 and “start silent” to yes to fix your slice plock issue.

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@Multiman - OK, yes - your suggestions are getting better!! I can’t imagine any set requiring more than 16 songs/events, so the Bank approach might work.

So you still use one-shots for this approach, correct? And, you get around the re-arm by using 4 tracks, right?

Thinking about it more, I’d almost prefer to re-arm. If I get over the re-arming part, I can make this much simpler. Also, with the bank approach, I can stop worrying about using sample locks and slicing, since one song can be the default sample for each bank.

I can even trigger the next bank ahead of time and wait for the right time to re-arm correct? If that is true, perhaps this is better than using the arranger? If I set a length for the row and I forget to hit ‘yes’ to re-arm, the length is then no longer accurate and the next row wont trigger correctly in the set order - right?.

[Also, perhaps I don’t understand the arranger, but it appears that the max length of any row is 512 steps (32 bars). You mentioned setting the length of a row to 200 bars (3200 steps), but that doesn’t seem possible.]

I hope I’m not playing too much devil’s advocate here, but I am hopeful to come to some sort of solution with the OT that doesnt take so much work! But, I haven’t given up yet…

So far, I like the bank approach, but not so sure about having to dedicate more than one static machine. Re-arming is becoming more acceptable, but wont play well with the arranger. The arranger is attractive, because I had plans to build several custom 45 minute to one-hour sets, basically hitting the play button only once. Maybe I just have to bite the bullet and chop everything up to use 16-bar loops so I can build arrangements exactly as needed.

But god, I hate sample management and I just want to play back tracks in sync with other loops and send out a click track to the drummer. The OT does NOT make that simple and any comparisons to Ableton Live just go completely out of the window. :frowning:

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@ rhizome - Thanks!

“try setting your amp envelope release to 0 and “start silent” to yes to fix your slice plock issue.”

I’ll try that. If I can get around that issue, my problems might be solved.

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Hi,

First IMHO you need a basic understanding of the OT, the beautifull thing about devices like the OT is that there are many options to do the same thing… It gives you freedom of choice.

Before I had the OT I never managed to play such complex sets, so yes is brain consuming and needs a bit to setup but man, once you understand the workflow you want and you have it laid down, the fun starts, extreme mangling, no worries on stage… Ableton allow things but sucks for others so at the end there is good and bad in both worlds. I never take longer than one afternoon to prepare my sets from DAW to the OT for playing Live, a 90 minute set with 12-15 tracks, so it depends how you look at it…

I would concentrate in 2 Songs, make the arrangement approach or the Pattern play approach and see how it goes, then you can build the rest.

Answering you questions, regarding the arrangement you enter the Value Lenght in Bars, if you dont know the lenght from ableton you can know the exact value when entering the edit menu of the sample in “atributes”… You also have the “Rep” or Repeat function within the arranger so even if the maximum lenght is 512 you can use “Repeat” as a multiplier… so a song lets say 600bars would be 300 lenght with Repeat in 2.

It doesnt take that long, all you need is to know the lenght in bars of you track and use a One shot trigger, this will allow you to lets say have the pattern running 1 bar… 16 steps… independently from the Main Song so you can enter new loops, sounds, whatever and affect them “in time” with the original track tempo (In sync like you say)

You dont have to assign more than 1 Static machine, I did 4 because I like to split my songs in 4, but you could use just T1 and have the rest free for whatever you want, then in the Pattern B - PART 2 use T2 with the sample of the next track for mixing…

hope it helps!

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Thank you again Multiman! But I must ask - have you actually used the arranger? Length is measured in steps, not bars. And ‘repeat’ does exactly as the name implies, it “repeats’” the row - it does not extend the length of the sequence. However, in context of one-shots, you are technically correct. but I’m not sure I’m willing to go the one-shot route.

Rhizome - tried your suggestion. Plocks still dont work. :frowning:

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do you have slice number locked in your active scene?

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@ Rhizome

No, no scenes in use at all yet.

Scenes can only be saved per Bank correct? So I would need to dedicate a bank to each slice?!

Keep the suggestions coming folks - I really do appreciate your help!

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Hi soltec I must say yes, I used the Arranger since the day the OT was launched in beta mode on live situation. The Lenght setting is given by the scale setup setting in the pattern, like the manual says:

[i]LN can be used to override the pattern length of the row. The default length is derived from
the scale setup settings of the pattern.

REP is the column where the amount of times the arrangement row will be repeated is set.[/i]

I setup the scale setup so it matches Bars, and if you are triggering a “One shot trigger” it means that the secuence will play twice within the arranger, but because is One shot it wont trigger any new sample, then you can change to the next step in the arranger for next song.

Hope you get your setup sorted!
Cheers!

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Thanks Multiman! :slight_smile:

Can you talk further on your explanation, “I setup the scale setup so it matches bars.”

Can you give me some more info on how to do that?

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I think I may have made a breakthrough with the one-shots. :wink:
It’s a very flexible triggering method in terms of on-the-fly selection of songs.

I’ve put a one-shot trigger on the first step of a one-bar sequence. This triggers the sample currently active in the static machine, and until the track is re-armed the track will play out.

Now here something I discovered on my own which makes the difference – While the current sample is playing, I can select and activate another static sample I want from the list in playback menu (w/ attributes properly setup ahead of time) and it is now “on deck”. All I have to do is re-arm the track within a one bar phrase and the next song will play in it’s place when the one-shot is re triggered.

Btw, I know about the plays free method of DJing this way, and later I might utilize those avenues as well.

But for the above mentioned needs, it’s also nice to know I can extend that pattern length by a few bars, so I can re-arm early in, and be ready to jam on the keyboards at the moment of re trigger.

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Hey Soltec how is it going… sorry I´ve been out and couldnt answer or check on my OT for further details…

Very interesting, I thought more people would get to this conclusion… I used this approach since day one and never actually stopped to think why it worked. Anyway, this is what I did to get the arranger working based on “bars”:

Firstly all my patterns have “scale mode” in “per track” mode instead of “normal” (pattern settings)

In your pattern, enter the Scale setup. The important thing for us here is the Multiplier… if we had 1/16x we could call them “Bars” but the minimum setting is 1/8x, so we set the MASTER LOOP LENGTH to number of Bars and Multiplier by 1/8x…

Now in the arranger I set Length of the ROW to the number of Bars and “Repeat” to 2… Voilá, is clearly not bars lolol but my workaround that makes sense to mee xD… and it works perfectly :slight_smile:

Hope it helps a bit more now!!

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Yes, things are now working to my satisfaction. Thanks Multiman! :slight_smile:

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