Yes I agree ! When I used to only produce on Ableton I also played some live acts with it and it was really fun (even if I find it really funnier with some hardware 
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When you switch from ânative effectsâ to third-party ones, whatâs the reason ? Is your CPU not able to handle the charge or are you facing some latency issues? (I have no clue if my M1 will handle them easily or not)
btw, the Novation Launch Control XL is one of the controllers I put in my âshort listâ âŚ
Yeah. Itâs clearer.
I agree Force is a bazooka
I wish you luck in figuring out a way to get what you want. you have a bunch of good gear that can work together quite well, and there are a bunch of ways you could make it work.
Have been trying this recently.
Using OB for multichannel input into Abletonâs per track EQ, routing, live mastering chain, and macro FX is primo. Even stock Ableton FX are miles ahead of Elektronâs in terms of quality and depth. Plus you can bus things and get real sidechain compression etc.
However OBâs sync on M1 devices is pretty broken at the moment, so even adding some basic stems or loops in Ableton clips doesnât tend to sync well. So yeah, no sync mode is the way to go, using Ableton purely as a mixer.
Would be ironic if iâd have to pick up a 1010 blackbox just to get some extra loops and stems into my liveset 
Itâs either a 500⏠blackbox with tight midi sync, or a 500⏠ERM multiclock plus interface with an extra output to use for the audio rate sync. Ugh.
@eira.hx figured out a cool method for hybrid liveset sync here: Possible hack to work around latency issues in Overbridge
Oh, what a shame 
I tought these M1 issues were fixed in an earlier patchâŚ
Is it unstable even if I donât add stems/loops ? (only FXs on audio tracks + mixing)
To be fair I havenât updated my M1 to latest os, so ymmv. Dt and Dn on 1.40, ob latest version.
Audio usually works pretty well, the sync is just off and variable so canât even do a latency offset. Plus glitches when recording so sometimes I donât trust audio. try it yourself and see if you get better results
if audio works without glitches then long as youâre not using synced stems and loops inside Ableton, you should be fine
yeah, the way to go seems to be OB in âNo Sync Modeâ with midi cables between the devices. (no problem for me)
to be clear, when you speak about ânot using synced stemps and loops inside Abletonâ, do you also mean I wonât be able to put delays on my Ableton tracks ? (as they need to be synced)
Have you figured out that youâre best to just leave the Force out of the setup completely?
Elektrons over USB/OB into Ableton, TD3 plugged into any of them, but best the A4 to get its chorus/del/rev.
Audio back out of Ableton to the Digitakt.
Drop the Force, look for a better controller (APC40mk2, Launchpad/Launch Control, Faderfox, etc).
Done. Make tunes.
I do the same. Multitrack into Ableton and then complement my DT / DN with VSTâs.
Iâve tried to get scenes to work with Elektron patternchanges, but now I just do it manually.
I am afraid Iâll come to that conclusion too. âAfraidâ cause I like the Force and itâs really versatile and complete but I am not sure it really could fit my setup (and I have more love for the Elektron gear to be honest).
Didnât think yet about getting the Audio back out of Ableton to the Digitakt, why would you do that ?
Have you any preference when it comes to controllers?
Iâve just mimicked this setup, in a scaled down version⌠A4mk2 and Syntakt into Ableton over OB, then the audio output of Ableton set to the Syntakt.
Syntakt is the master, Ableton set to EXT sync. Timing with the A4mk2 was off over OB/USB, so set itâs Midi Input to Midi (not USB) and put a midi lead from the ST into it.
Works fine.
Also allows you to add clips in Ableton to send to any track of the A4 and ST and them play in time fine.
If I wanted a controller to work this live (baring in mind that most would still be done hands on with the Elektrons), Iâd go for something with faders⌠Iâve used a Launch Control XL and A&H K2 in the past, and that works great⌠I dedicated the A&H K2 to 3 aux channels and the master fader in Ableton, and the LCXL handles the individual channels.
Sounds really good. Ä° couldnât find anything like ableton to use. Itâs going to be very easy to process all the sounds together and seperately. You can maske groups within groups to glue the sound together by processing the lows and highs. You can even live loop with just a button and prepare the other track on the headphones and have a DJ style set. Ä° think the number of your tracks are kinda high it can be a mess to use all the tracks, maybe you can limit your self to 8 tracks for one song for controlling in ableton and use the ableton crossfader to have another 8 tracks on B so you can transition with the crossfader from A to B.
I tried to see if anyone mentioned it and maybe itâs already understood⌠but just avoid plugins that add latency.
With PDC, any latency and external audio can create some problems with sync. Even bit of latency introduced, you can count on the synced timing shifting to compensate.
There are tons of no-latency plugins including the native effects of Live (so long as you donât turn on look-ahead mode on the compressor).
As long as the audio is summed together/mixed in Ableton, plugin latency doesnât matter, nor does the lookahead on a compressor.
Thatâs not right⌠PDC is PDC.
Summing audio is completely different and the summed product is already delayed (if there is delay compensation).
Because itâs not a Yes/No conversationâŚ
Hereâs a link to understanding PDC in Live:
https://help.ableton.com/hc/en-us/articles/209072409-Delay-Compensation-FAQ
It is partially latency, but mainly that the âheavierâ plugins are primarily Izotope mixing plugins - my workflow has me tracking and recording on an 8GB memory base M2 Macbook Air, and then moving the project to a beefier machine for additional arrangement and mixing/mastering. Iâve not hit a memory limit yet.
I just like to keep it lean while tracking - EQ, limiters, and compressors from Ableton. Valhalla Delay and Reverb. Serum and Arturia Analog Lab V if I want extra synths. It also works better on a smaller laptop screen.
Have you seen and interacted with these?
In case you havenât, this is what a blank Live 10 Suite session with Analog dropped into the 1st channel looks like on Force in Ableton Control mode.
My Force and M1 Mac are connected via Ethernet for the Akai Network Driver/Ableton Link.
The Mac uses a Komplete Audio 6 mk2 piping audio & MIDI into/out of Force, ( sometimes) S/PDIF into Eventide Eclipse.
Force uses a tascam 16x8 interface, allowing it to act as a mixer for all of the audio from itself, Octatrack, the Mac, and whatever else I want to connect.
If I wanted to do what youâre suggesting, using ST, DT, (AH, A4, AR) via OB, Iâd use one of the Elektron boxes in place of the Komplete Audio 6.
Audio and MIDI flow where I want it to, when I want it to, and sync isnât an issue between MIDI clock and Ableton Link.
It works for me quite well.
I havenât tried this setup with OB yet, so at the very least, thanks for bringing this possibility to my attention!
I hadnât even thought of combining the two approaches⌠Iâve been doing all my analog saturation through the SiX - doubling down processing through the analog series simultaneously is intriguing.
Really nice ! My first idea (but it was before getting a Digitakt) was to stay DAWless (or to use the Force as a daw-in-a-box) and to get an UMC1820 as an audio interface for the Forceto connect all the other gears in it (but my main problem was that I couldnât handle the Elektron tracks separately)
I abandonned the idea of working totally DAWless as I really enjoy working with Ableton (for production matters) but I still wanna be able to do it for live acts if needed.
I agree with you, the Ableton integration with the Force is really awesome! But I would like to avoid (as much as possible) the need of using an audio interface.
Didnât think about using the ethernet link but that could be a good ideaâŚ
Could maybe get the 3 Elektron boxex (+ the TD3, through the A4) to my M1 via USB-Overbridge and then connect the M1 to the Force via Ethernet ? Dunno if that makes sense (but if it works and is efficient, that would be compatible with my idea to have 1 âdawlessâ setup (ST/DT/A4/TD3) that can be âupgradedâ with Ableton+TheForce
I made a small test yesterday with DT+STâ>Overbridge and being able to use my FabFilter plugins separately to each tracks is crazy ! Wow.
I only tried the Fabfilter at the moment but it worked amazingly. (I have a M1 Pro Macbook Pro with 16GB RAM)
btw I also had a look at the workaround @fffiiissshhh was speaking about and I already tried it without knowing it was a workaround but I didnât notice it was better or not.
Regarding Ethernet, all it does is send MIDI/Ableton Link back and forth.
Both devices show a self-assigned IP, but that hasnât been an issue. Disable WiFi on Force and youâre good to go.
Before I used the KA6mk2, I was using the M1 headphone output. That worked fine, and its really quick to bounce a Force clip to a USB thumb drive, process it in the Mini and then get it back the same way if I needed to.
This is my workflow now, basically using the Force+OT combo âlive setupâ as the brains of the setup, and the DAW âproduction setupâ as other sounds or processing that the black boxes canât do.
Using the reverse flow, DAW into black boxes, seems interesting as well.
Is it possible to aggregate say, ST & A4 as your DAW I/O, for external gear while using them in OB mode for processing?
Build your set that way, then put them into the boxes for the live DAWless setup or whenever you donât want to fire up the computer?
Many possibilities exist.
Either way, itâs very fast for me to A/B something created in the âproduction setupâ that will be performed on the âlive setupâ because itâs essentially the same thing.
I just have to choose which box is going to do which part and at what time.
