USB noise loop overhub V2

Elektron Gear Other Elektron Gear
#1

Hello

I just bought the elektron overhub V2, where I have connected usb / midi from styrmon nightsky, styrmon volante, Moog mathiarch, TD-3 MO, keystep pro, Focusrite Clarett + 4Pre to overhub. and from the electron hub v2 to the motherboard to a usb 3 input, all instruments have their own power supply. Nektar Impact LX Mini is on its own USB 2 on the motherboard as it has USB power.
I get USB noise loop from instrument and pedals in my earphones, when everything is connected, but disappears when I disconnect TD-3 MO, styrmon volante and nightsky from overhub. when all the noise was gone I removed the Clarett + and put it to its own usb on the motherboard as well.

I have tested different USB ports on the motherboard but get the same problem.

how do i solve the problem? I am running a hybrid installation with usb / midi hardware connected to cubase 12? bought overhub to have all usb midi gathered for better cabling and reduce the number of connected usb devices in the motherboard, and that overhub optimizes the data flow for midi / usb what I understood.

where does the sound and the noise come from? and will it be better if I buy a pcie usb3 card inserted direct to motherboard and connect the electron hub to the pcie card?

or are there other ways? like connecting all instruments and pedals in a special order in overhub?

need all the advice I can get, then I should not be the first with this problem. I need to buy another usbhub to connect more usb. but need to fix this problem first and understand what the problem is coming from.

are there no usb pci / pcie cards that have optimized chips for audio? where can you connect usb sound card and overhub?

or how should I think? and what do I need to do to get a quiet system.

there are motherboards that are optimized for this, such as asus proart z690 or asus proart B660. or something else?

#2

I think there are USB adapters that have no power lines, only the data lines, to avoid such an issue, just can’t find a good link at the moment. Arturia used to deliver their beatsteps with one.

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#3

it’s really bad and overpriced on a hub that, behaves like that. is there any adapter that you can put in between?

#4

You should disconnect everything except the audio interface, then add the devices back, one by one, to find out which one is making the noise.

Don’t assume it’s the hub.

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#5

Yep have Done that. Same

#6

Its TD-3 MO, Styrmon nightsky, Styrmon volante. It kan be the MB port to, why dont MB brands do a MB for midi audio realtime MB with quality USB port and chipset for handeling this. There is so mutch on a MB that are just waist like onboard audio??? take that away and make more quality usb ports.

And for overhub all usb i loos, everything is usb 2.0 so why dont they put in a usb port that is tight for that?

#7

Curious wich MB are you using?
Did you test usb cables with a ferrite bead cylinder?

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#8

I dare not say what my motherboard is called hehe Z97-S02 4690k 16 gb 1600ram, I am buying a new mid system until z790 comes, and have what I buy now as cubase vst system link, for hardware record. and z790 for all production and mixing, Izotope plugin and Halion etc. suck the power out of the computer.

I’ve been looking all day for a program or a cmd command. to get that info about all usb and other device. but finds nothing. maybe it’s just that it’s a loop because usb is in the same group, then it’s a loop.

do you have a good way to restore usb ports and get control over them, if it is possible to turn off +5 on the port I have? then I only have ground and data? am I thinking wrong?

I always have 2 sets of cables. but have not dared to buy until I know which ones are best for all different instruments and for overhub, styrmon has usb-b mini.

there should be a program for it to test cable ?, I do it with my eurorack cables that fail from time to time.

where do you buy the highest quality usb cables that transmit midi and cc signals at normal price? then usb-b to usb-a 2.0. do not know if it is that some cables have magnetic protection, the round thing that some cables have around them.
I want things that last until the product sells out at the price I paid. bought quite a few mogami of the absolute highest quality of all parts for mono and stereo cables just for the quality. use them only between the instruments, tested schultz cables and some are already starting to give, after a year.
even bought mogami eurorack cables to test the quality.

and all these adapters, I do not understand that there is no adapter like styrmon zuma where you set volts and amperes ask output where they are isolated intermediate ect.
you just get tired of all the cheap shit you get that you have to replace that I had to bring with my adapter on my claret +. pajade after a week. you may have a bit of a riddle there with where to find galvanized quality adapters, and not the shit you get. you can apologize if I lpter bitter. but one is tired of looking for help in finding quality.

#9

it was just one I talked about, have been looking for a place to buy, thanks :slight_smile: will buy a bunch :slight_smile:
but can Ferrite Cores disturb the midi signal, thinking of the internal clock where the signal can start drifting after long sessions, however, it is mostly the MB clock that creates this. but maybe there will be an even bigger drift ? I ask because I want to know, and just got the thought in my head?

#10

Not that I’m aware off

If they al being fed by the same usb chipset yeah then …

I also see (here on elektronauts and other forums) that there can pop up a lot of problems when people use usb for midi

I know in theory that you can connect what is it, to a 128 devices on one chipset
but that’s in theory
Most of the time you see problems occurring when ten usb devices connected

I would go for a midi interface from Motu or Iconnectivity(they even have midi interfaces with din and usb sockets)
Connect that midi interface and your claret + each to an usb port on the MB

I know you just bought that hub
but I find that having a dedicated midi interface is so much easier and also more reliable
(my experiences)

#11

yes i have looked at it? Well, the problem once again is that the manufacturers are stingy with installing the right chip for the USB ports that can handle midi / cc / audio correctly so. not even the asus proart Z690 has these chips in it, and they call it creation. I’ve actually looked at mioXL — iConnectivity, but midi 2 is so nerdy now and it will be looking out for products this or next year. I was very close to buying it, but thinking that the electron knows its stuff and does what needs to be done to make it good.

what motu are you thinking of? it is a difficult choice motu or Well, the problem once again is that the manufacturers are stingy with installing the right chip for the USB ports that can handle midi / cc / audio correctly so. not even the asus proart Z690 has these chips in it, and they call it creation. I’ve actually looked at mioXL — iConnectivity, but midi 2 is so nerdy now and it will be looking out for products this or next year. I was very close to buying it, but thinking that the electron knows its stuff and does what needs to be done to make it good.

what motu are you thinking of? difficult choice motu or iconnectivity. have clarett + now and it must sync with the sound card. weighed between Clarett + or RME UCXII. and it was several months waiting for rme so I took Clarett +. but will probably buy rme anyway for their durec.

I can only return the overhub when I just bought it.

I actually do not understand why they release overhub v2 when there is a lot more engineering work left to get a perfect hub. I pay what they want only I get what I need, which I thought here.

#12

It’s not the hub, most likely you have an USB ground loop issue.

You have 2 ways to solve it, but first you have to isolate the device(s) that trigger the noise. Then:

  1. Use audio isolators on the device output. Cheap 3.5mm ones are said to work well if you’re careful with the signal level, as they tend to easily distort in the bass range if the signal is too hot. Or you can use a DI box or this relatively cheap Behringer isolator: Behringer HD400
  2. Use USB isolators between the hub and your device. They’re not cheap and have some limitation (like the amount of available current or their speed), I use the Hifimedy High current version with my synths: https://hifimediy.com/product/usb-isolator/
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#13

Is it a DI i only buy palmer or vermona eurorack top notch galvanic isolator, 3.5 mm i dont have any use for, i only use 3.5 mm for patching from keystep pro moog matriarch and eurorack and to 303, Dead silent there. Its the usb and all the bad cables and low quality power supply, and MB leak. Going to get home my new pc soon. But Will start with a quality high shielding usb cable and try out one small ferritchokes, always good to have home for trubbelthooting. I dont want to put stuf in that can change the soundscape styrmon moog and eurorack is Very Very subtile changes to get it perfect. I start with the cable, and ferritchokes, and check all instrument midi settings on all equipment so that there is no overload or other cable faults. Always the cables hehe

#14

If I built A Daw pc I always pick a decent MB from ASUS or gigabyte, with at least 2 different usb chipsets, and if its is possible from different brands.
To be honest never had complains usb related or hum/noise usb related

Laptops are a whole different ballpark.

When I started messing around with drum boxes and synhts, midi was only on din, and it didnt took long before I realized how much I needed a mid interface,
first i made the mistake of buying a only 2x2 but then I went for a 8x8 and that is such a big luxury.

Now I using the motu EXPRESS XT
Works like a charme
why this one and not the Express 128
xt is also stand alone midi patchbay

And why not the big one from iconnectivity
To much to put in the front and wouldn’t fit my situation it would be a hassle with al those cable coming from te front
But I’ve you don’t have a problem with and or fits in your current rack the MIOxl is the beter choice of the two its ± 100€ cheaper and you are getting more din in and outs and even usb ins
and iff Im not mismaking, it also works as a standalone midi patchbay

I’ve read a lot of positive things of the mio on a dutch synthesizer forum

I think its a very decent hub, but its not a holy grail

My DT and Dn is on a usb 3 hub brand sitecom 7 usb a ports for OB use
Also works like a charme

I work with cubase 11 pro, the motu EXT as MI , claret thunderbolt as AI on iMac 2020
the motu ext is full, and also feeds some midi to sync boxes
the 8 audio inputs of the claret feeds cubase

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#15

Hello

I have never encountered it either with hum lch noise ect as I have always been careful with just the right cables etc., however, I am nerd to buy hinton PSU for my eurorack, and ask him what it would cost to build psu with 12 outlets where you can say the volt and ampen for the device you are to send to. and ask designcables to make real quality power cables from pcu and device. the electron understood by ouerhub is not to send with yet another switching power that one should put in the psu line. I’m not saying bad on switching, it’s just that you have so many of different quality with leaf-thin wired. and a euro contact that is the worst I know. where all cpu should be sweetened in at 45% instead of making the branch outlets 90%. on this you have 300 cables to unbalanced and the computer etc., it is a lot of PUS ground. one lives in a fog. so everyone must be quality where the boring thing about building a studio is that everything around costs the same amount.

but I did some troubleshooting yesterday and will continue today, as well as cleaned the usb ports etc. but it is hopefully a cable. and ör it usb loop then come I do nothing, but have already ordered a new computer that is better, so I do not think it is overhub either so I have to apologize when I have done the troubleshooting. this computer I buy now I will have as vst system link uses myself cubase 12, with the whole absolute 5 package and every izotope plugin, decided to only buy a 3 party brand as cubase has almost everything. of course you look at fab filters just for their nice design haha.
i was not on midi association yesterday and usb midi 2.0 protocols will be really good the whole document is there. and fell asleep before I found out if there is a usb port protocol for usb midi 2.0, it will solve a lot the new protocol for the usb ports rock solid :slight_smile:

#16

I think its best to get an Galvanisk isolator between usb hub and pc. and good cables like these https://www.amazon.com/Chroma-Cables-Audio-Optimized-USB/dp/B07D2LJXJ2?ref_=ast_sto_dp on all devices. then you have control. however, never tested these cables, but they seem good.

#17

I know it’s rude to say, but this topic made me chuckle a bit. :face_with_hand_over_mouth:

There are so many wrong assumptions here it must be some kind of record.
I’m not gonna go into that though.

But I can’t let anyone recommend a Motu Midi Express XT without pointing at the fact that it’s bugged, and has been for years.
Motu knows about this and doesn’t do anything, do not buy the XT if you’re planning on doing sysex.

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#18

I have fixed all the chipset frivers now and a hell of a lot of other things, and done a completely clean installation, there is not a lot of shit left on the motherboard. what I do now is to test Make A Custom Windows 10 ISO - YouTube, and I think that the urd ports are starting to get old and that it is a motherboard of lower quality so it can clearly leak through noise. When it comes to USB cables that are to handle digital signals, you can buy any shit, but in my opinion you want as clean a signal as possible everywhere so I probably put a little extra on USB cables as I showed above, when you has a hell of a lot of cables all over the place, worth trying. and a motherboard good motherboard with quality usb ports and shielding. as asus proart B660 D4 or Z690 however more than I need.

hehe that’s what you have forums to ask stupid questions and say stupid answers for your ignorance. until someone who has knowledge comes in :slight_smile:

what would you have done if you had these problems?

Kör bara :slight_smile:

I want to hear so i learn :slight_smile:

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#19

You don’t receive any noise connecting devices directly to the USB controller on your laptop/motherboard?

Yeah, if you’re using a desktop, you can always install a 3rd party (quality!) chipset with better isolation :slight_smile:

Shouldn’t cost too much for something with better components.

#20

I have started to get noise from my keyboard to when i have lights on so there is somthing that is unstable. I have looked alot on pcie card, what is your first choise ? Are on my new pc build already.

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