Updates, OverBridge & Elektron Economics

The Lounge General Discussion
1

So here’s two cents on the perception that Elektron are somehow slacking in the promise of continuous updates etc, how I’ve dealt with that personally, and then a question about wether or not Elektrons model may or may not be hurting its business:

First - I bought an A4, brand new from the Elektron store, loved it, and I didn’t feel it had been oversold or anything in terms of what it was. BUT, I did feel irked by some of the little things - the manual, the lack of basic warnings in the interface when you delete stuff - easy to lose work, poor song mode (may actually be good but not helped by the manual). Opened a ticket asking for clarity and possible fix for deletions “Delete - are you sure?” - got told it was ‘as designed’ whatever.

Second - I never bought another Elektron machine from Elektron again. My experience of the A4 (that I love to this day, especially after awesome +drive, poly update) was enough for me to decide:

a) I can’t pay 1000 clams to be a beta tester
b) the used machines are mature, awesome and can be picked up for 5 or 600 clams instead

I now own 4 Elektron machines, 3 bought used, and love them all because I don’t feel like a mug shelling out a grand per machine that doesn’t have the basics of UI design or a decent manual even after 1000 cries of despair.

Elektron do pretty much regular updates yeah - but they seem to ignore foundational stuff sometimes in favour of bells and whistles (just my perception, kill me if I’m wrong). OverBridge is a case in point - I’m guessing that a lot of Elektronauts couldn’t give a gnats chuff about it - we by hardware to get out of the box, now they want us to go back in? LMFAO - it’s either a completely bonkers move that contradicts Elektrons raison d’etre, or it’s totally genius and will be the cornerstone of a new standard adopted by all manufacturers for the next 50 years. I still couldn’t give a gnats chuff about it cos yup, you guessed it, I by hardware to get away from the laptop.

OverBridge won’t make me buy a Rytm, the used prices in about 6 months will, by then it will have matured and be even more awesome than it is now.

So now the arithmetic - I paid Elektron roughly a grand, and then bought three machines used.
I’d have easily given them four grand if my A4 experience had been top notch. Is their model broken?

P.s. I’m not trying to be a dick - I just get a bit tired of folks whining about how they feel “cheated” or how a machine was “oversold” etc - to those guys I say get a clue, don’t buy new :slight_smile:

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How does Elektron get your money if you buy used?

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Well they don’t - that’s the point - I’m asking is their business model broken because they made it more interesting for me to buy used than new.

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They got their money from the first owners of your instruments.

5

The manual was from day one available for download from their site. Given the update nature of their instruments this not only makes sense but also saves on a few costs.

Your issue with the UI is akin to someone who buys a car and simply can’t be bothered to ensure they are driving it right.

Davinci is quoted for saying that simplicity is the ultimate sophistication and for good reason. Whenever you make something simple you occlude all of the complexity. Usually because this is extremely difficult this means foregoing features, and in essence getting a dumbed down whatever. iOS is a shining example of this in comparison with Android.

I for one absolutely appreciate the depth and complexity of Elektron’s machines. This is part of the value proposition.

As for their business model. I believe they are spot on. What they are doing with Overbridge and their continued attention to older gear is unique across the industry.

I feel they deserve what they charge for their products. If you compare what you are getting to the market you will see they are not only competitively priced but in some segments of the market the only composite solution.

On top of that the build quality is top notch.

I feel that we couldn’t be further apart in terms of our perspective here.

2d

6

What nature making sense not to include a manual?

Given the update nature of their instruments this not only makes sense but also saves on a few costs.

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That they have updatable OS’s, and so paper manuals may not include some current features…

But I didn’t get the sense that the OP was complaining about not having a paper manual, just about the quality of the documentation, which is a fair comment, IMO…

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I started a thread few weeks ago called : better than elektron … turns out there is actually none nada nothing nix niete zero …dear OP : at times I also wish elektron would be more easy to understand, yet elektron is the bomb (to me) and as it turns out also to (a lot of others) (excluding some none techno kid n.y. producers :stuck_out_tongue: )

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Agreed - though I don’t mean to imply that the quality is necessarily bad, it’s just inconsistent within and across products, and kinda like they’ve been written by an engineer for a technical audience rather than for musicians or ‘right-brained’ folks. It’s just one of a few strange choices that seem obvious (like delete warnings in a UI ) and no matter how often customers raise it, Elektron just seem to ignore basic belt and braces stuff that contribute to a weakening of the generally excellent product experience.

I don’t know - is it Elektron arrogance maybe (Our way or the Highway)? I dont buy the ‘small team’ resource constraints line that we’re being fed constantly. Hell, most people in Sweden speak better English than me - how hard would it be to draft in a (non-engineer) intern to edit the manuals? Or have Elektron engineers revisit design assumptions now and then in case they got something wrong?

Last time I checked we were in the advanced stages of a global economic downturn, maybe that didn’t hit Sweden - so outsource the intern jobs or pay some talented Elektronauts - it’s not rocket science to solve a resource issue in this context right? Or am I missing something?

p.s. I’m not suggesting Elektron throw bodies at the software - I can recite The Mythical Man Month in my sleep - I AM suggesting a periodic historical sweep that asks ‘did we get this right? what do the users think?’ For an example of this in action see the Miniataur OS2 thread where Amos from Moog iterates with users over such inane topics as “most logical button combos” . I know Moog is Moog, Elektron is “boutique” blah blah change the tune perleeease :slight_smile:

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buy used?.. but… dirty knobs? :’(

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Personally, I am on the edge of my seat with excitement for overbridge. For my A4, this means access to individual outputs that I did not know would be available when I purchased the machine = Win! Overbridge also means that I will be able to free up inputs on my audio hardware as needed and if it works as I anticipate will open up a lot of interesting options that were not available before.

It’s a bit funny how so many people whine about computer this computer that when in reality all of the Elektron boxes are computers with imbedded with updatable, including the occasional bug OS, integrated interface and specialized circuits that you would not find in a regular PC . How you use the PC (Or mac) is up to you, and if you struggle with understanding customizable technology that is not 100% direct purpose oriented plug and play, then not using a computer in your setup is probably the right choice. For me it is the right choice, and the way I use it opens up a plethora of possibilities, unlocks many performance features that users have been whining for for ages, and in most regards has become a direct extension and expansion of my primarily Elektron setup. I interact with the computer when composing but no interaction is necessary when playing, all things are remote extensions of the Elektron interface Even though it is not necessary for me to have a display running for me to play a 90 minute set, I do like to refer to some visual cues that I set up for each track.
Anyways… Bring on Overbridge, think before you buy… And please stop being narrow minded about the relevance of computers in a live or studio environment just because you don’t use one!

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Another thing that excites me about Overbridge is that when I feel the urge, I can fairly effortlessly pull my AR and or A4 out of the rather bulky, and pretty much hardwired custom rack I have built, and without any additional sound card or mixer, just a laptop, I can go jam at a buddies or play a spontanious gig or just bring it on a road trip or… ? Next people are going to be complaining that the Analog series isn’t USB bus powered and it sucks to have to tote around bulky power supplies… :stuck_out_tongue:

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Hi,
normally not a big discussion-board-writer, but I can´t reserve anymore. It´s everywhere on the internet. The people are so much complaining. I can´t read it anymore. Not only here and music-technology-related. It has to be realized that technology today got so complex in all areas and you can´t make everybody happy. It takes time to develop it. There is no music-instrument that is perfect designed for all tastes. But to me the packages that Elektron provides are absolutely sublime. You get super sequencers, excellent sound, very good hardware-quality, good support, regular updates and so on. The price for that machines is very good when you consider this. Give me an example which company can provide that in this regard. If it don´t suit you NOW, fine use something different. I bet if they had provided the requests that you wish, you would find something other to complain. Don´t be angry, make music. There are so amazing artist in this forum and the world that make great music and are happy with the machines.

So, don´t be an angry man and complain and complain. Make amazing music, that I´m eager to hear. It is possible with the machines NOW.

And don´t get me wrong. Of course you can suggest improvements.
But the complaining is so annoying.

Over and out…

17

All excellent points NRain and of course very valid.

I have no beef with ITB or preference for OTB but we can’t deny that Elektrons PRIMARY market position until the announcement of OverBridge was firmly OTB.

I’m simply using Overbridge as an example of what I’m flippantly calling “bells and whistles” (for me, not for you). In fact for me it’s less like bells and whistles and more like an appendix (I’ll get it, but I don’t need it).

As an Elektron customer, given the history of the company as a pioneering manufacturer of OTB products, it’s reasonable to expect a commitment to making said hardware as solid as possible, including basic workflow and UI fixes - TO MAKE THE OTB EXPERIENCE DELIGHTFUL BEFORE ANYTHING ELSE - that’s how they’ve positioned themselves in the music hardware market for over a decade, and that’s what I and probably a few others I suppose bought into with their first Elektron purchase.

Just for me, the experience of the A4 (which I love) didn’t pan out that way - the commitment from Elektron’s just not there - it’s obvious, they are a business, and they reserve the right to change direction, ignore fix requests and do whatever they like. That’s all fine - the main point is - and this is it - does this approach to business make sense?

The love with A4 was one way - I loved it, Elektron didn’t love me back (boohoo) (but what about poly and +drive? Cool, but can I not delete my work so easily please?)

I paid full price for that A4 nearly a grand I think, but then bought 3 other Elektron machines used because they positioned themselves as an "ivory tower " company in response to basic fix requests (not with me directly, just general vibe) - a slight air of arrogance maybe, maybe not, it’s hard to understand the attitude they bring (that’s part of the issue maybe - the boring mystery - yawn).

I don’t get it - they could have had 4 grand from me, but they CHOSE only to take 1 - is this the new way to do business? Serious question.

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Hey chill out monopete - I’m not complaining at all dude (try and find a post here where I’m complaining anywhere on the forum) - sorry my post was a bit long and probably not very clear - I’m asking people not to complain, buy second hand and reduce your risk - my question is actually about alienating customers - does it make sound business sense to stretch your resources so thin that you minimise revenue per customer? Simples.

I’m not angry at all - far from it - just trying to understand the weird economics.

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So many people NEED to tell everyone that they don’t use a computer… WHO CARES! Use your gear how you use it but don’t think you’re special for not using a computer…

So Overbridge, I feel it’s a necessary extension of the A4, multiple outs is a very desirable feature, what’s not to like? Apart from not using a computer blah blah…

I’d suggest housecliche, that you be very careful about deleting stuff, rather than expect Elektron to cater to your flippant button pressing… Take your time, watch what you’re doing and you shouldn’t delete things… and save regularly… it’s not that hard, certainly easier than expecting Elektron to change their code because you are careless… even thinking they should is pretty weird… it’s your responsibility…

The manual isn’t great, but guess what, exploration is waaaay more fun… play with your machine… you’ll learn stuff :slight_smile:

Elektron don’t charge for additional content = win!

Elektron are active in creating new content = win!

Elektron are cognisant of the multiple variations of studios out there = win!

Elektron make good equipment that is sturdy, sounds good and has longevity = win!

Elektron don’t pander to whinging = win!

Elektron don’t care if YOU don’t want to use a computer = win!

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Thanks for the lesson djsm - I’ll try not to carelessly delete stuff in my 1k toy in future.

Cheers!

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You don’t bother to share your charm and ‘wisdom’ very often = win!

a bit of tolerance and respect please !?
go pick a fight with all the other folk wishing it wasn’t quite so easy to trash stuff

and that was a whole lot of ironic whinging btw :+1: :+1:

22

Avantronica must delete important work and not use a computer either…

Each to their own. We all have opinions and just because mine isn’t in line with yours or housecliche doesn’t mean I’m intolerant and picking a fight.