Updated to 1.40 and lost all project sounds (FIXED WITH 1.40A UPDATE)

avantronica · 2019-10-28T21:41:03.941Z

Forgive me for still being puzzled, but sounds don’t exist in projects. Not in isolation. Only in pool slots. Otherwise sounds are kinda inextricably in kits. If you don’t use kits actively and save them then when a project is saved a kit will be lost. Sounds are in the plus drive or pools per project or kits. Each pattern points to a kit number. There needs to be a bunch of explicitly saved kits to point to, these contain evidence of sounds, but the sounds are not saved as sounds, just a part of a kit. Yet you have been using projects happily, are we on the same page in terms of structure.

Unifono · 2019-10-28T21:57:04.967Z

ok I haven‘t used the A4 for a while but I‘m pretty sure that if you start from a empty kit (you just don’t touch the kit at all) and initialised sound and then edit the init sound (change some parameters) and then just simply save the project, the edited sound will be recalled when you reload the project.

no need to save into a kit, no need to save into plus drive.
It‘s saved with the project.
I‘m pretty sure I always worked this way.

Have to go to bed now. I have a look tomorrow if I‘m completely mistaken.

But I never worried about kits and didn‘t save all my sounds to the plus drive. I‘m sure. And the projects worked all the time

Thanks for the help

avantronica · 2019-10-28T22:03:07.752Z

If true then it is puzzling you have got by, unless there was only one kit per project. The active project has a saved state and a working state, within this there are various levels of temporary and saved. Patterns get written when you jump to a new one but kits can survive that. But a kit that is not deliberately saved will not be covered by a project save. I think there is one scratch project. So it still confused me that you were okay before as it seems you shouldn’t have been.

sezare56 · 2019-10-28T22:04:36.864Z

Sorry for you.

I have the impression that some of my previous projects patterns have kind of initialized sounds, hence no more interesting. Not sure if I saved them properly, or used banks I deleted.
Some are apparently as they should, maybe my favourites I saved properly. Not sure.

It would be interesting to know more…

sezare56 · 2019-10-28T22:07:57.778Z

Analog Four/Keys 1.40 & Analog Rytm 1.50

All the sounds on the tracks have been reset to the default square wave. On every track, in every project. The sequence is there, but that is it. No edited sound, no effects, no panning, nothing.
Do I just delete all those songs, are they gone forever? That sucks.

I guess you meant default saw wave…

So is it a sound init or kit init problem? (or both)

Unifono:

I rarely use kits

I rarely save sounds, unless I want them in the soundpool for Multimap. Now I have the impression that I saved the kits of the OK patterns. Can’t check now.

Schnork · 2019-10-28T22:42:47.426Z

Damn, that sucks…
I just follow this guide and never had problems.

How to backup everything? Analog Keys/Four

I did accept the same challenge and tried to backup all my projects. And yes it’s true. You have to do it one by one. Nevertheless the keyword ‘WHOLE PROJECT’ in the SysEx menu fools you easily like the above posts have already mentioned. If you wanna be sure to be able to fully restore the whole project with all its sounds, kits and patterns you need at least: Move your custom sounds and those from the +Drive you have edited to the sound pool (sound/soundmanager/ left browse -> select a soun…

Unifono · 2019-10-29T08:16:36.183Z

Unifono:

if you start from a empty kit (you just don’t touch the kit at all) and initialised sound and then edit the init sound (change some parameters) and then just simply save the project, the edited sound will be recalled when you reload the project.

no need to save into a kit, no need to save into plus drive.
It‘s saved with the project.

So I tried it again I confirm what I wrote above…

avantronica:

unless there was only one kit per project

that’s the case. I know I have to save the kit if I change to another kit within a project but I rarely do that. Most of the time one kit, one pattern per project. I save the project. For the next song I user another project.

I only save sounds if I think I could use them as presets in other songs. But usually I start from scratch every time.

sezare56:

I guess you meant default saw wave…

So is it a sound init or kit init problem? (or both)

Yes the default saw wave. Listening to all you melodies with basic saws is a terrible experience…
I have the feeling that all kits reloaded with the update.
Since I never saved the default kit, all sounds defaulted to saw waves.

avantronica:

it is puzzling you have got by,

Ok so I will save the single kit in future.
But the main question is. Why did this happen with an update? And why did this never happen with all the other updates since late 2014?
I always had the latest OS installed.

The new features feel like a weak consolation at the moment…

Anyway. Time to make new tunes I guess.
Can’t imagine that there is a way to go back to an earlier save state in the machine.

Unifono · 2019-10-29T08:17:29.414Z

xidnpnlss:

Did you try Reload + sound?

Yes. thanks. Only simple saw waves everywhere
(which makes a lot of sense here, where the kit was not saved)

avantronica · 2019-10-29T08:59:20.772Z

Unifono:

why did this never happen with all the other updates since late 2014?

possibly because those didn’t incorporate such fundamental changes to the pattern/kit architecture - now e.g. they support Tempo per pattern, this is a fundamental change, the new OS may have to force a re-read and that’s where your not having saved a kit comes into play - it’s no consolation or comfort to know that this is possibly a case of having lucked out before, but the kits do need to be saved within a project before the project is saved, that’s why I wondered if you were rocking single kits (which would have been imho the only conceivable scenario whereby what you described would have made any sense) - Your patterns are loading Kit 1 now (which is an unsaved Kit with default sounds, but it’s the Kit that’s at the heart of this, not the sounds), it’s as simple as that. There is a temporary working state to some aspects of the workflow, you were able to wing this due to your workflow, but if you had ventured towards two patterns using different Kits(sounds) you’d have known much sooner that this wouldn’t work out.

This is a common pitfall amongst other folk assuming kits are saved when a project is, but that’s not what happens, this is down to the fluid way that Kits can straddle patterns seamlessly when edited live. It’s a good system, but needs understanding.

Unifono:

Sure I probably should have made backups of the sysex, but I’ve gone through many updates and this never happened.

Even saving/exporting your projects would not have helped you here (you really should be doing this for every OSupdate due to the chance of bricking it e.g.) and that’s because if the Kit wasn’t explicitly saved you would simply be saving the default version of that Kit within the project and at that moment the working version of the project would be lost.

Unifono:

hope this doesn’t happen to more people.

This issue would only affect those using your particular workflow who had been unwittingly exploiting the single working kit buffer

I don’t wish to sound like there’s an element of victim blaming here (nothing would hurt me more than losing sounds that I have designed - and that’s why I methodically back those up off the +Drive) but imho there’s nothing fundamentally amiss with the update itself - it’s been unique circumstances (and luck) which have allowed this to work out for you so far - it seems likely that the Elektron devs would know that this reset would occur, but they wouldn’t be expecting anybody to be working solely with unsaved Kits

Of course, some of this analysis could be incorrect, but I just wanted to try to rationalise what has actually caused this crappy outcome for you so that you can be better armed for the future

I’m resolved to better understand some of the little nuances of the ‘working’ buffers

Unifono · 2019-10-29T09:12:04.188Z

avantronica:

but if you had ventured towards two patterns using different Kits(sounds) you’d have known much sooner that this wouldn’t work out.

I did and I knew how this works. For my liveset I used several patterns with several kits.
But I didn’t know I have to save the kit if I don’t need different patterns with different kits (which I didn’t have to so far obviously)

avantronica:

that this wouldn’t work out.

it did work out for five years. Even if it’s not common workflow, I couldn’t know that a new update would change that. Especially after going through many major updates without problems.

Anyway thanks for the analysis. I know better now.
I will also use different kits for different patterns more often now since bpm per pattern is possible now. Before I simply rarely needed it.

ivarin · 2019-10-29T09:21:08.534Z

i often encountered the same issue before the update. still haven’t figured what exactly causes that.
just by going through old banks/patterns it turns out that half of them plays on init sounds ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

i just gave up and prefer recording to audio everything i reckon worth it

Unifono · 2019-10-29T09:21:37.506Z

avantronica:

Even saving/exporting your projects would not have helped you here (you really should be doing this for every OSupdate due to the chance of bricking it e.g.) and that’s because if the Kit wasn’t explicitly saved you would simply be saving the default version of that Kit within the project and at that moment the working version of the project would be lost.

Your are right of course

chrisb78 · 2019-10-29T09:21:51.049Z

Sorry this happened to you. I’m surprised that there aren’t more users reporting this – you surely aren’t the only one not having saved kits, yet having updated.

If unsaved kits revert to default sounds, this obviously should be noted in the update notes

Unifono · 2019-10-29T09:23:31.325Z

ivarin:

i just gave up and prefer recording to audio everything i reckon worth it

Fortunately I did that with my favorite A4 tracks. A lot is still gone…

LyingDalai · 2019-10-29T09:24:07.672Z

Please contact Elektron support.
It seems backward compatibility problems are considered as bugs if they can be reproduced.

Unifono · 2019-10-29T09:24:36.110Z

LyingDalai:

Please contact Elektron support.

Thanks. I’ll do!

ivarin · 2019-10-29T09:25:56.168Z

you know, just try to apply your existing kits on those patterns. chances are one of those will fit. or at least some happy accidents may take place

Unifono · 2019-10-29T09:27:09.062Z

yeah it’s nice that the melodies are still there. Will try them with new sounds. With some luck it will turn into something better than before

xidnpnlss · 2019-10-29T09:45:05.724Z

That’s the spirit. Unifono remixed.

Unifono · 2019-10-29T09:46:04.331Z

I’ll post it in this thread if it worked out