Okay guys, talk me out of buying an AK. My primary synths are as follows:
Access Virus C module
Bass Station II
Korg MS 2000
These are controlled by either my Octatrack or Machinedrum.
I wanted to buy a Monomachine next, I really dig the FM drums on my MD and I want that clean and cold FM sound (think techno and hard electro-industrial). I also have a Casio CZ-101 which never gets use but could fill my FM gap if needed but I wanted the flexibility of an Elektron box doing FM. I also liked the looks of the VO machine but I guess I could simulate this (possibly with better results) using a vocoder and my own voice. However the rest of that silver box I think overlaps with my Virus and I also have a Blofeld which needs a resister replaced but otherwise would cover the wave table side of things.
So why buy this synth? I know this is DSP vs analog but does the AK overlap with the Virus too much? I keep bouncing back and forth on the DSI Pro2 and Moog Sub 37 as well but they are both single voices which keeps pointing me back to the AK. So why buy the AK? What will I gain other than fulfilling my gear lust?
Also some side questions. What in the hell is dedicated waveshape LFOs per the specs page on Elektron’s site? And what about the variable waveshapes for all waveforms? Is that similar to making wavetable like sounds within the analog oscillators?
I’ve been using my Roland JX-305 as a controller keyboard but it is hard limited to only being able to control 8 tracks and only MIDI channels 1 - 8. The AK would replace this since it isn’t channel limited but can I switch between any of the 16 channels on the fly or is this through the settings menu only?
sh 101 on one track, pro one mixed in steps
modular line on track 2 with a poly 6 bend placed on step 12
Juno 6 next track little bit of sem on step 35
vintage drums on next track with an arp od line on step 10, 14
basically a lot of synth and means you could sell off a lot of that kit
amazing machine and I am actually liking it more than the mm these days
I had a similar decission to go for and went for the AK last week. I was considering between the AK and the Pro 2. I went for the AK because of OB around the corner and the polyphony. The other issue about the Pro 2 is how DSI will handle with bugs and updates. I want to see first that they care about the problems. Tempest was and still is a problem child…
If DSI does good with the new range I will buy the Pro 2 in winter.
Overlap with the Virus?
I have a TI, the sound is close to the C. I would say the AK and Virus have quite different sound. Bassy stuff from the AK has more power than the Virus. The AK sounds sounds very modern if you ask me and I love it. It can still do the classic stuff though. There is not much overlap between the two synths.
The Sub 37 is a nice synth too, but I already have two Moogs one being a Voyager so I never thought about going for the new kid on the block.
I believe the AK will give you most for the cash. Soundwise the AK is more open than a Moog giving more possibilities.
I assume you are talking about the P-locked patches. Yeah this is really a feature that is pushing me towards the AK, done right with short notes and you could have for example six completely different sounds on a single track., multiply this by the four tracks and this is very powerful. I make some use of this on my Octatrack and I can see huge potential in this.
I know the Pro2 has a 16 part sequencer. I’m struggling to understand what that is in relation to and if they have implemented a similar patch switching feature. From what I have seen it appears this just means you can sequence notes, modulations, and CV from each part. For such an “advanced sequencer” this sounds horribly complicated and more limited compared to an AK.
Thanks for the Virus comparison and the details on the Moog. I figured as much with the Sub 37 since even demos that talk about showing off a greater range of sounds really never seems to show anything too interesting and certainly not what I have heard from an AK. I even keep seeing Moogerfoogers connected to the Sub 37 even in official Moog demos and I just wonder to myself, what is lacking in it to need the extra filter/effects?
Mooguy here.
Honestly, when your Moog synth has CV ins/outs and you start tasting the MoogerFoogers, there’s no need to find anything lacking in the synth for using all of them together. Also consider Moog is promoting both their synths and effects: vids with everybody connected is a good advertising.
About the DSI Pro2, there is something that bugs me: everybody talks about the sequencer. In my mind, this sequencer will be more or less in the same vein of the ones on the previous DSI instruments: a source of modulation per patch, and not a global sequencer (just as the Sub37’s BTW)
Assuming I’m right, how can it be compared to the AK’s sequencer? This is not the same beast at all.
I went to a shop for an AK trial yesterday. I had read the manual once, as soon as it was published, and I’ve been using a MDUW for 7 years now. I’ve been able to change the polyphony allocation, change patches, and build a sequence from scratch, just like that. (ok I struggled 3 minutes for the voice allocation stuff )
I bought a Sequential Circuits Multitrak a few months ago. Two, in facts: one is not 100% usable. I was searching for a poly-analogue synth with intgrated sequencer. The Multitrak is… handy for a 1983 instrument. But honestly, the AK is just what I’ve been expecting for years now.
I did not want to crack, telling myself I could not justify getting one. But now it’s more like I cannot justify keeping on avoiding to see the truth: it’s one of my dream synthesizer!
Advantages of the pro 2 over the a4: MUCH better integration with analog modulars. This machine is really fantastic for that. You can have 4 ins and outs going simultaneously (plus also an analog gate out), and they can all be set up in the modulation routings.
As far as the sequencer - it’s an interesting comparison, especially because DSI touted the sequencer so much in their promo literature.
What does the 16 tracks really mean in comparison to the a4? Well, you can set each up with independent lengths, and you can set additional routings in the mod matrix. But, each track of the a4 sequencer allows you to set many modulations, given the nature of parameter locks. However, within a track, these modulations are all the same length…
So, all in all, you can have MORE modulations on the a4, but as far as having them be polyrhythmic, there is more potential in the pro 2.
There also really is not a mod matrix on the a4…that makes a big difference.
Also note - there is no live recording of notes on the pro 2, and even if you record knob turns live, there is no microtiming parameter on the pro 2.
I really like the paraphonic mode on the pro 2, but it isn’t as flexible as ‘real’ 4 note polyphony. Part of this is that the sequencer really doesn’t employ the paraphonic mode to its full potential at this point. it will cycle through the oscillators, however you can’t record 1 oscillator to a track, as quite a few people have suggested. I vaguely recall that DSI says that they are working on implementing this.
I do not have any modular gear so the CV features are not a factor for me at this time and I would prefer to not start chasing the analog modular dragon.
No live recording of notes seems like an overlooked feature. I would assume they would update this? This certainly would be a deal breaker, half the point of not just buying an A4 is because of the simplicity of just using the keyboard to record. Recording knob turns drives me crazy because I always want to go back and change things. I love P-locks for this because I can very specifically adjust each setting later on if I don’t like how it turned out. The whole press record and do your best thing reminds me of the motion sequence feature on various Korgs which I never used because of this.
The more I hear about both the AK and Pro2 it seems that the Pro2 has many more sound possibilities (what I wanted in a $1500+ synth) but ultimately the AK has the work flow and feature set I like at a better price. I think when it comes down to the sequencers I would just end up sequencing the Pro2 with my Octatrack anyway. At that point I might as well have a built in Elektron sequencer and save my 8 MIDI tracks for the Virus, BSII, etc.
Knowing my luck Elektron will release an Analog 8 the second I press buy
I do not have any modular gear so the CV features are not a factor for me at this time and I would prefer to not start chasing the analog modular dragon.
No live recording of notes seems like an overlooked feature. I would assume they would update this? This certainly would be a deal breaker, half the point of not just buying an A4 is because of the simplicity of just using the keyboard to record. Recording knob turns drives me crazy because I always want to go back and change things. I love P-locks for this because I can very specifically adjust each setting later on if I don’t like how it turned out. The whole press record and do your best thing reminds me of the motion sequence feature on various Korgs which I never used because of this.
The more I hear about both the AK and Pro2 it seems that the Pro2 has many more sound possibilities (what I wanted in a $1500+ synth) but ultimately the AK has the work flow and feature set I like at a better price. I think when it comes down to the sequencers I would just end up sequencing the Pro2 with my Octatrack anyway. At that point I might as well have a built in Elektron sequencer and save my 8 MIDI tracks for the Virus, BSII, etc.
Knowing my luck Elektron will release an Analog 8 the second I press buy [/quote]
yeah - I’m lucky to have both of these - but I’d agree with your assessment that the pro2 is more flexible sonically, and connecting to other analog gear, but the a4 has those parameter locks, and much better live recording of notes and knobs. For my needs, if I HAD to choose between them, I’d choose the pro 2, but that is because of these particular features that I am using so much. The sound quality is excellent on both, I think.
No not yet. I have pretty much decided I will be getting the AK. The Pro 2 seems to still have the greater sound design options but I think I am sold on the AK’s lower price and more overall features which I think will benefit me more than the sound design side. If I can ever get my hands on a Pro 2 it might change my mind but so far the DSI synths I have been able to play (Mopho keyboard variants) I really don’t like their work flow and the sounds aren’t terribly different from what I can make with my current gear. I did get to play a Prophet 08 once and I thought it was amazing so I feel like I could be swayed if I could just play a Pro 2.
Based on what you said you are looking for, I would say the AK would work for you. How multitimbral are you looking for? A VA synth might meet your needs better but even four parts should get you pretty far.
Automux,
Your reply was very thoughtful…
I do work with soft synths but have accepted that “my real vibes and flow” come from hardware. 4 voice multitimbral can work.
Well what I meant when I mentioned a VA is more along the lines of maybe an Access Virus would serve you better. 16 parts and up to 96 note polyphony on a Virus TI 2 but with a hardware interface. Otherwise if four voices is enough for you then I would say the AK would be a lot more fun to use especially if you are already familiar with the Elektron workflow.
Well I just got the AK last night. Very powerful sound being pushed out of this beast! This thing can make some crazy drones which I accidentally found out. The oscillator PWM speed can be really long from the looks of it which was able to give me a nice gradually fluctuating tone.
I’m studying up on the manual while I have some downtime at work. I can’t wait to get my hands back on this!
I have the Access Indigo 2 and I will say I turn it on but never use the sounds anymore. I have the A4 so the Indigo is an expensive controller now. I’m still in an internal debate to drop the Indigo and A4 for AK.
Learn to use the Auto channel to help with your midi setup and workflow. It took me some time but I have it set up to use the OT sequencer to start/stop sequencers and record midi notes.
This is between the OT <> Indigo Thru> LXR + Yocto 808 + A4 + Shruthi XT + some other drum machines to trigger.
I thought there would be more overlap between my Virus C and the AK but so far I feel they sound very differently. I’m sure if I put the effort in I could get both to make similar sounds but I can really feel a clear difference in the types of sounds I would use each for. In my case I only have the VC rack module and have been needing a decent controller which was half the reason for going with the AK over the A4. To each their own though. In my case I end up making sounds with each synth that I wouldn’t even know where to begin recreating them on a different synth.
I intend on finally making use of auto-channel on the OT. Once I rework my little home studio I should have something like this:
AK -> OT (auto-channel) -> MD (clock only) -> MIDI thru hub -> all other synths (BS II, Virus C, MS2K, Blofeld). The OT will be the only external synth sequencer. I’ve toyed with the idea of slaving my Volca Beats to my MD and let the MD trigger the Beats which would then be connected to the MD input.
I’ve used the MIDI learning feature on the OT with the Virus before and it worked out well. Very handy having simple parameters like cutoff mapped to the OT when using the Virus in multimode. I would like to have another chain of MIDI coming back from the Virus to the OT for the MIDI learning.
Access Virus C module
Bass Station II
Korg MS 2000
Hey nice i have this one by the past so i know it very well. Going to the AK is nice. At your point with the budget i probably hesitate between Clavia A1 and Elektron AK. I have A4 and i will go on A1R when i have money… i fucking love this synth … AK is a god choice if you know well synthesis
I have a Virus TI, and I agree I haven’t noticed much overlap. In fact, I haven’t noticed too much overlap between the AK and any of my synths, which includes a mixture of VA’s, analog and FM. The AK really is a synth unto itself.