(un)balanced cables

TrabanT · 2014-03-07T07:05:50.000Z

hi elektronauts

general question here … hope to clarify a few things … looking forward to all comments and advice and tips and feedback

My MD , A4 (soon MM) all seem to have Balanced Outputs

researching about this topic brought me to this:

http://gspn.tv/forum/index.php?topic=3834.0

link.

[i]It is very easy to tell, if a cable to goes from XLR to a 1/4" male plug, whether the cable is balanced or unbalanced.

It all has to do with whether or not the tip is “TS” or “TRS”

TS = Tip/Sleeve
TRS = Tip/Ring/Sleve[/i]
…

so, now my questions:

I cannot unscrew every cable i have, but if I see a TS config, I take it for granted it is unbalanced.
should I buy balanced cables in future?
should I use balanced cables for my MD A4 MM ?
if the inputs of MD A4 and MM are Unbalanced why use a Balanced out?
if the inputs MD A4 MM are Unbalance, should I only use a Balanced Out if I go into my external USB sound card (focusrite scarlett 2i4)?
my focusrite scarlett has balanced outputs to which I have unbalanced cables hooked up (which go into my stereo amp (nad 316 BEE) - should I exchange these?
is all this only necessary if I experience hum and hiss?
is bal/unbal = snake oil
here is my current chain the MNM will arrive this weekend, then I need to rethink things probably, maybe get a mixer …

MD out into A4 inputs. A4 out into cinch Korg KP3. KP3 cinch out into L+R mono INputs on focusrite (ext usb sound card)… focusrite (L+R) Balanced OUT into NAD 316bee L+R cinch IN AUX.

all unbalanced cables

setup.jpg1280×770 570 KB

10) what else should I bear in mind for current setup?

what should I bar in mind if the MM arrives?
what is the cheapest and smallest mixer with stereo IN to save on space?
how to post things with fewer questions
…

looking forward to hearing all suggestions.

bluewolfse7en · 2014-03-07T08:28:27.000Z

Mate, on runs that short using balanced cables will make no perceivable difference!
There’s a thread on here somewhere about this, if I find it ill copy in the link.
As far as I’m aware the Elektrons are not truly balanced anyway they’re kind of pseudo balanced.
Hot goes to tip, cold & screen are wired to ground.
This is common among manufacturers as it allows the device to operate in balanced or unbalanced situations easily.

To hear for yourself, hook one machine up with a balanced cable on one side & unbalanced on the other then pan. If there’s a 3dB (approx), drop on the unbalanced side then they’re are indeed truly balanced, but I seriously doubt it!

In fact I’m gonna have a play with this & see for myself.

TrabanT · 2014-03-07T12:45:29.000Z

allright… interesting … so no noticable difference (maybe loudness) to be expected on short distances …

your idea with 2 cables left and right bal vs unbal is simplified science!

cant wait for you to post your results!

any thoughts on chaining a4, md and mnm?

thanks for your post bluewolf

TrabanT · 2014-03-07T22:54:17.000Z

look, same question

Which cables for connecting the MD outs to MNM ins? Monomachine

Hello fellow elektronauts, It’s been said plenty of times that using the monomachine as a fx machine for other gear is great. I wanna try that, and have my MD run through the mnm. Question: the outputs from the MD are balanced, whereas the inputs on the MNM is unbalanced? So do I use balanced or unbalanced patch cables to connect the outs from the MD to the ins on the mnm? Or does it even matter much at all? More generally, if anyone have tips for using the mnm fx like this, I’d be grateful …

bluewolfse7en · 2014-03-08T00:33:05.000Z

Aha, I even posted on it lol.
Still gonna check it out 2moro & lay this one to rest foreverererererereer

Cocker · 2014-03-08T04:43:51.000Z

As bluewolf said it only really makes a difference if the cables are really long. Live music venues always use balanced as the cable lengths can be quite considerable. I’ve never tested this on a home set up though. Interested to see the result. Having said that though I did buy myself a bunch of balanced cables over the holidays. Cordial do some nice ones and they’re fairly good quality and relatively cheap too. Plus you can unscrew the outer shield if you need to do any diy or repairs

http://katalog.cordial.eu/catalog3,56,211,216,kk13.html

http://www.dv247.com/cables/cordial-stereo-jack-to-jack-cable-3m–200430

TrabanT · 2014-03-08T07:38:59.000Z

thanks cocker and blue wolf ! …

bluewolfse7en · 2014-03-08T13:47:34.000Z

Ok chaps, one side is balanced, one side is not! Who can tell me which is which?

Top to bottom- MD, Mnm, OT ,A4

MD.jpg1024×768 405 KB

Mnm.jpg800×600 251 KB

OT.jpg800×600 242 KB

A4.jpg800×600 247 KB

jonah · 2014-03-08T15:54:59.000Z

i dunno specifically with elektrons, but with some stuff i definitely get interference if i use unbalanced. (usually stuff with internal power, now that i think about it) mostly i’ll hear crappy radio, sometimes cell phone pulses. cables aren’t what i’d call super long. mostly between 6-10 ft.

i don’t think it’s snake oil, but if you don’t hear a problem i don’t think it’ll make a difference.

i mostly use TRS cables for everything because they aren’t really anymore expensive, (especially if you make your own) but there’s the odd bit of gear that doesn’t like TRS too, mostly guitar-centric stuff, it seems.

Cocker · 2014-03-08T16:12:27.000Z

""bluewolfse7en"":

Ok chaps, one side is balanced, one side is not! Who can tell me which is which?

Top to bottom- MD, Mnm, OT ,A4

MD.jpg1024×768 405 KB

Mnm.jpg800×600 251 KB

OT.jpg800×600 242 KB

A4.jpg800×600 247 KB

wow the difference really is negligible.
i’m going to say the left side is unbalanced.
but only cos it looks a tiny bit lower on the first 3 pics at least

TrabanT · 2014-03-08T18:28:28.000Z

really cool work with the graphs that you produced!

that is what I call a science lab! … we got a problem, theories, postulates, graphs, results, independent researcher, multiple observers, plenty of equipment … beat that “insert online audio magazine here” …

fuck (un)balanced cables I say

bluewolfse7en · 2014-03-08T19:19:10.000Z

^

Ok I’ll come clean. The Left channel on all pics is balanced.

Sorry I didn’t have time to record the results but rest assured there was no perceived difference in quality between the 2 either!
Both cables were 3m length.

Cheers