I have a looot of little ideas and loops and beats and soundpads and things that I love stored on my devices and on my laptop, but I still have trouble turning them into Compositions.
Does anyone have any resources to share, to help with Composition? Turning ideas into Finished Songs, and so on.
I think I’m not alone in this, so I thought it would be worth starting a dedicated Topic.
To start, I can recommend Creative Strategies for Electronic Music Producers by Ableton’s Dennis DeSantis.
That book looks nice, I like the aesthetic.
Up next…
Rick Beato and his addicting videos
Also,
How To Develop a Musical Idea From Scratch - Recording and Arranging
His channel has everything musical you can think of and everything you can’t think of as well. Valuable resource for producing higher quality music. He plays guitar and loves to help with technique and ideas too, so bonus for guitarists.
This is the book I used to brush up on my theory… Great book, only downside is you won’t know if you’re wrong unless you already know the material and can spot your mistakes… lol. You’d need some sort of answers guide and the audio CD separately.
I have the Creative Strategies book. It’s nice!
I don’t have a specific resource, but something that helps me a TON. is to drop a song in a DAW that is similar to a sketch I have. I then mark out sections (intro, pre-chorus, chorus, build, key change, drop, transition, etc) Then, I map out what I have and don’t have, and fill it in, mix it up, or completely drop the formula because the composition finally takes on its own life! When marking out sections I take notes like, “high voice added,” “bass rolled off,” etc… this gives me some good variation ideas.
Ah yes, unusable on my Octatrack as far as I know, but when I had my Digitone I’d go through the hassle of naming every pattern relative to chorus, verse, etc… Just a bit of planning helps tremendously.
I use Studio One 4 and they have an arranger section that lets you setup sections such as that and I find it helps a lot with consistency and progress.
RE: Octatrack… Respectfully, I disagree. You can achieve a nice song mapping with good ol’ pencil and paper. Might be the notation nerd in me, but this is how I practice some compositions in my live set with room for improvisation along the way.
Another resource I’ve found interesting and helpful is this youtube channel - 8-bit Music Theory - where video game music is analysed in quite some depth. The author has even transcribed all of the parts into western notation to help with the discussion.
I find the videos really inspiring ^^
Well there’s the arranger on the OT so technically speaking it’s a built in feature already, I mainly meant naming conventions. I used pencil and paper even on my Digitone when I first got it before I realized I could name patterns.
Regardless, I’ll take a paper book over my Kindle any day.
Not so much of help but what’s been working for me the last few weeks is using one machine with a goal in mind. It’s a super simple goal but it’ll cover two things, a finished project and learning/deciding to keep the AR. Just like I used to write songs on my acoustic guitar and a notepad, that’s all I owned for 20 years and finished a ton of full songs.
Listening to different music
Working with different people
Working at different times of day or night.
Couple of things that have helped me in the past.
Thanks for the recommendation!
Indeed.
Lots of great recommendations for youtube channels and the like in this thread. I love Rick Beato, Adam Neely, others.
But the real answer is to steal from whoever you like. What is their structure? Can you point to a bunch of (structural) ideas of your favorite singers/songwriters/producers and say “Oh they like doing this thing”? As an example, David Bowie during his Aladdin Sane area would oftentimes modulate to the key of the bVII for the choruses. He would also use lots of bII chords on that record for the verses.
How many bars for a verse? How many for a pre-chorus? A bridge? How do you take a four bar loop and make it a whole work? That’s the hard part–something I’m not very good at. I’m more keen on writing a verse that’s 8-16 bars (typically), repeating it once or twice with some variation, then moving on to the next section.
How do you keep a listener’s interest when the chords repeat after four bars? How do you keep a listener’s interest when the chords are the same throughout the whole song (if you choose to do that)?
Does the B section usually start on another chord? A classic go-to is starting the B section on the IV…Listen to any number of country songs.
Just learn songs. Pick up an instrument and learn to play the song front to back with the melody and chords. If you want to get very, very into it, learn how to arrange the same song. Even if you don’t personally use this work because you think you’d be “stealing” (for laughs look at Rick Beato’s video on John Williams and who he borrows from…) it’s still good practice for understanding structure, arrangement, progression, melodic development…All of it.
I have to write a little jingle for a podcast I’m working on right now, and they want some closed harmonies ala the 40s. So here I am reading a score of the chordettes and figuring out how to make it work for our own melody…Music can take you lots of places
Get to know your equipment inside and out. When an idea strikes, you will know how to translate your idea into reality!
Experimentation helps when you’re not sure where to go next.
A good focal point helps. A central idea or theme if you will. For instance…today I decided to focus on my TT-606 and the drum groove got me juiced enough to have ideas develop outward from there.
Lastly, don’t be afraid to get rid of musical ideas that aren’t working in a composition. If it sounds bad within the context of the entire song, it probably is bad. Sometime the energy it takes trying to fix something that doesn’t work can be used to create something new that actually DOES work.
One thing I find useful is to commit to my ideas and never look back. As in bounce to audio, delete the original source and move on.
I try to get to a basic arrangement as soon as possible.
The end result might not be your best ever, sure that kick might sound a bit too honky, but you’ll have something done (you’ll feel accomplished and it’ll boost your confidence) and by the time you’ve done a few songs they’ll start to get better.
All super great contributions. I’ll summarise some of the links in the first post a bit later.
Take your main part and record a long take into Ableton with lots of twists and turns of the knobs. Drop the other parts in and out where it makes sense to you. You now have a basic arrangement.
The lil tips are great too.
well, there are compositions working structure wise (intro verse chorus etc) and soundwise (mixing fading effecting…) or both at the same time.
probably you´ve got a lot of stuff on your machines you really like.
so if you can´t turn it into a finished song why not start with doin´very short tracks. like just a minute or even less.
sometimes that´s much better than forcing an idea into a"full song"
there are a lot of books and a lot of theory, but at the end you have to discover things for yourself…
classic songwriting doesn´t work anyway for a lot of electronic music (genres).
one “method” to reach your goal could be:
take one of your favourite ideas and record several one minute snippets.
don´t put every trick you have into it, stay relaxed, leave out things even if they sound great. too many ideas can ruin a track.
record an intro and/or an outro (maybe with some elements of your main idea)
put these ideas together to one track (no matter how long)
then listen to it and analize what you like or not.
someone else here mentioned already on a similar thread: there is no shortcut. you´can read as much theory as you like, at the end you´ve got to find out stuff yourself.
Yes, you are right - with any skill or art or craft, you have to put the time in to get better at it.
Some very personal observations and remarks and philosophisings:
Having a shakuhachi teacher has really done wonders for my shakuhachi playing. I am very lucky, as my teacher is a very skilled shakuhachi player as well as being an excellent and inspiring teacher, and they can teach me techniques at a rate that I can learn them (which is pretty slow!) Not to mention, having regular lessons gives me extra drive to work hard on it, and the hard work is paying off.
Acoustic instruments are in many ways, so different to electronic ones. Electronic instruments are so inviting and somehow easy to get into, at least at a basic level, whereas acoustic instruments tend to need a lot more groundwork and physical skill before you can make nice sounds.
There are hundreds of years of tradition behind acoustic instruments, so the idea of teacher and student is very well established. The electronic music world is much less established, so we tend to figure things out for ourselves.
It also seems to me that when I’m playing electronic instruments, I’m often equal parts playing the instrument, and composing on the fly.
I learn to play the shakuhachi by learning the very old honkyoku pieces one by one, and jamming is secondary.
I really love these differences. I think a lot about them.
Composing and jamming and learning and performing and playing. Hmm.
It’s a balance of practice and gaining some insight into what’s going on in your head.
You can get frustrated easily because you don’t know what’s going on.
When I learned that my biggest obstacle was turning the ideas in my head into actual beats, things started to click. I had to learn some specific techniques to make my ideas reality.
I also had to think about what the theme of my tracks were. Once I started to identify a theme, things started to click. I just build beats and stuff around the theme.
Both of those ideas had nothing to do with practicing, but rather understanding. I hope that made sense.