Trigless Lock (unwanted) Pitch Changes

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T14:28:46.536Z

I don’t believe this has been resolved or perhaps I am clueless as to how to continuously record a knob movement.

I just got an MK2 and updated to 1.50.

When I record a sequence in live recording mode, then I sweep the filter, it changes or adds notes to the trigs where there previously was no note and the trigs become yellow.

Is there something I’m doing wrong or a way to correct this?

Thanks

avantronica · 2019-11-11T15:01:16.758Z

Karl_Joseph:

Is there something I’m doing wrong or a way to correct this?

Correct what though ? What is it you believe is wrong about it at present

A Lock Trig (yellow) will have a Note value of zero (unlocked), it will have locks to disable Synth/Samp/Envelope/LFO retriggering and a lock for the parameter you modulated, e.g. Filt Freq

What is it about this which is not right, are you just surprised by the audible & sudden filter opening and confusing this with Trigging

what happens if you set the p-lock value of filter to be exactly the same as the current track sound value ? does it effectively vanish ?

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T15:43:59.137Z

Please excuse me because my knowledge of elektron terminology is novice.

The new lock trig is changing the pitch of my sound where there was no pitch change (or any trigs) prior to live recording of the filter cut-off.

When I go to live record cut-off, why does it add or change the pitch of notes on steps where there is no trigs.

Adding additional pitch change trigs when I’m only trying to record the cut-off sweep doesn’t seem “correct”

If on a word processor you intended to write the word Elektron and instead it read E.l.e.k.t.r.o.n inputting or changing the characters in between to something unintentional?

I’m not trying to be argumentitive, i just don’t understand the purpose of the lock trig also entering a note value on a trig that previously had no note value.

avantronica · 2019-11-11T15:56:34.308Z

Karl_Joseph:

why does it add or change the pitch of notes

I have no idea, it doesn’t do that for me on my tests - how do you replicate your issue from a clear kit clear pattern using the fewest steps possible ?

The Lock Trigs can appear to have a different value (i.e. it’s the track default, relative to other normal trigs in pattern) and as long as they are not highlighted as locked (which you’d have done somehow) then I don’t quite know what you are seeing/expecting

You need to demonstrate using a very simple easily repeatable test

Also be sure to test this whilst connected to NOTHING else, not usb, nor MIDI … keep it simple

avantronica · 2019-11-11T16:08:36.273Z

Are you observing this on a track that is not part of a Voice share out of interest (i.e. 1 2 5 or 6) ?

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T16:30:24.375Z

It is part of a voice share. I’m using Dual VCO on track 3. I’m not at the rytm right now, but I will give it another try this evening.

This isn’t a deal killer by any means, I’m just hoping I don’t have to p lock every step just to make a filter sweep across a 4 measures.

Thanks!

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T16:32:36.317Z

I should say it only does this (changes pitch) on trigs with no data on it (just a blank step) Sorry I don’t know the terminology for a blank step.

avantronica · 2019-11-11T16:43:15.506Z

Karl_Joseph:

I’m just hoping I don’t have to p lock every step just to make a filter sweep across a 4 measures.

But how does that relate to pitch ? - achieving a sweep with the existing steps on a pattern will take planning and slides or an LFO which is only trigged once etc

FWIW The reason I asked about voice share is that a Lock Trig on a subordinate track will mess about with the prime Track Voice in certain circumstances, so to keep it simple use non-shared-voice tracks first - there is a strong likelihood you are just forcing the default parameters of Track 3 to eclipse the Sound of Track 4 when the Lock trig is passed - it will interrupt T4 with T3 values

Karl_Joseph:

it only does this (changes pitch) on trigs with no data on it

you’ll need to list steps to replicate in order to see what’s going on here

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T16:50:49.223Z

So when you live record knob (filter) sweeps, it doesn’t mess with the pitch of empty trigs?

I could totally use the LFO in trigger once mode!

Thanks!

avantronica · 2019-11-11T17:00:46.707Z

Karl_Joseph:

So when you live record knob (filter) sweeps, it doesn’t mess with the pitch of empty trigs?

No, but you need to set out everything else that’s happening (e.g. on T4 etc) - or rather, make a simple repeatable test from scratch, try on track 1 or 2 for comparison

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T17:08:24.504Z

Nothing else is happening. I have nothing on shared Track 4. I have note trigs on trigs 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15.

Live record while only sweeping the filter cut-off knob changes the pitch of steps 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 12, 14, and 16 so the envelope release of the odd numbered notes changes pitch when the it reaches the trigless lock that recorded the filter sweep on the even numbered steps.

There are by my count 3 other people in this thread who have experienced this. All their post are very clear as to how to replicate this.

Thanks

avantronica · 2019-11-11T17:51:35.480Z

Karl_Joseph:

There are by my count 3 other people in this thread who have experienced this

They’ll presumably be able to take their time to help you out then because I don’t see this pitch change issue using the case mentioned above, nor any others I can think to try, including your steps, on either a Mk1 or Mk2, and even using the DVCO on Track 3 being careful that Track 4 is clear … nor do I see any simple repeatable steps to methodically reproduce the issue from defaults

Plus I seem to have confirmed that the bug (presuming there was one) was indeed fixed some time ago

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T18:43:12.680Z

Well, in theory using the LFO in one shot mode I can still achieve the intended outcome. I’ll try that tonight and see if I can (hopefully not) reproduce the pitch issue on the empty trigs.

Thanks!

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-12T14:28:46.500Z

Unfortunately I could not get the lfo to sweep the filter over a number of trigs because the trigs re-trigger the LFO.

Also, I tried multiple times on blank pattern, different tracks and everytime I live record, the trigless trigs enter note data on my empty steps and it is still changing the pitch on my empty steps. I don’t know what else to do. I can’t believe only my machine is still doing this.

avantronica · 2019-11-12T14:43:41.995Z

Karl_Joseph:

I can’t believe only my machine is still doing this

This may be user error - why not do as I said, list the steps, the fewest steps from scratch

The LFO can have its trigger disabled per step, or you can use a free LFO and then enable a p-lock for one Trig or set once on a 1st condition

But this thread is about the notional ‘bug’ that pitch is spuriously deviated - let’s see the test case that reveals this, using fewest clear steps and you’ll either learn that you have a glitch or learn something new, correct a misunderstanding or we’ll all learn of a nuanced bug

Right now it feels more like it’s a case of user misunderstanding - please separate the objective (sweep) from the observation (pitch changes)

Can you confirm that you are trying this disconnected from all other gear, as mentioned above btw

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-12T15:06:11.140Z

It is likely misunderstanding. Here are my steps:

Blank pattern
Track 1 Dual VCO
Live record eight beat pattern. Note trigs fall on steps 1, 3, 5… etc
Live record knob movement of filter cut-off
Disengage Live Recording

result:
Filter cut-off sweep recorded and pitch data “0” entered on empty trigs.

How do I disable the per step LFO? Do I have to do it manually on every step?

Thanks

Karl

avantronica · 2019-11-12T16:03:05.565Z

Karl_Joseph:

pitch data “0” entered on empty trigs.

What does empty trigs even mean. Do you really mean empty, if they are empty how can they have a lock ?

Do you mean the lock trigs have a note of zero ? If so, does this fall into the non-locked defaults that I discussed above, in this case it is not a lock nor significant and nor should it change pitch

Did you try what I said earlier, set the sweep Freq very close to default, do you perceive pitch changes. Are there pitch changes locked or heard/perceived

I also tried what you wrote, those steps are too vague tbh, but I don’t see pitch changes.

I explained two methods for The LFO locks (see note page) turn LFO retrigs off there and set a free LFO and set one LFO retrig at the start of the sweep. Long sweep LFO techniques are explored in the broader forum too

Record with filter 100% open and live tweak filter only in upper range e.g. 90-95% this will not mask the osc pitch. If you get actual note locks at zero, then this is a different issue.

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-12T16:42:18.395Z

Empty trigs are steps that aren’t lit up red. After I record the filter sweep, the empty (not lit up) trigs turn yellow, the yellow trigs now have a filter lock and the unwanted note data “0” added were there was no note before. It changes the pitch of the release on the 1/8 beat melody I recorded.

“Do you mean the lock trigs have a note of zero ? If so, does this fall into the non-locked defaults that I discussed above, in this case it is not a lock nor significant and nor should it change pitch”

If the pitch of the prior step is “2” and not this non-locked default is “0” it changes the pitch from the prior step when the amp release carries over to the non-locked “0” default pitch.

“I also tried what you wrote, those steps are too vague tbh, but I don’t see pitch changes.”

Sorry, let me try again:

Start with a blank pattern

Set track 1 machine to Dual VCO and chromatic mode

Hit live record and play a melody with an 1/8th beat pattern. Note trigs will fall on steps 1, 3, 5, 7… etc

Now, live record a filter cutoff sweep over that melody/pattern

Disengage live recording.

My result is the filter cutoff sweep is recorded over the pattern but the steps between the note trigs (steps 2, 4, 6, 8… etc) have a note value of “0” which can be heard in the amp envelope release of the recorded melody on steps 1, 3, 5… etc etc.

avantronica · 2019-11-12T17:35:14.652Z

Karl_Joseph:

have a note value of “0”

this is the third (and last) time I will ask you to clear this up

Is the Lock Trig showing a parameter lock on the note value ? or is it just 0 because 0 is actually the default, if it is not locked (inverted) to 0 then it won’t(shouldn’t) affect pitch - if it is locked, then there is something about your process or OS that is creating that glitch, it should not lock pitch when you only lock frequency

so you tried the suggestion to lock a high frequency so the freq barely modulates, but is locked ?

Perhaps you are hearing a glitch but it is not clear given your misuse of terminology - there are empty trigs, these are unlit, you are describing a Lock Trig, which is a parameter locked Trig

I can assure you given your thrice repeated instructions I do not see parameter locked notes on the lock trigs

Try to replicate this in a new project

So, New Project
Select DVCO for T1
enter step mode
place a Trig on 1 and one on 9
lock the note value (press trig page, hold Trig1 down and twist knob to get +19, set Trig9 to+22)

Hit SRC page, set balance fully counterclockwise
set both decays very high

now if you press play you will hear two high pitch droning notes which take 8 steps each and repeats

no from this starting point, live record filter tweaks for a bar or two ensuring they cover the whole bar, but keep those tweaks in the upper range above 100 (as I said before)

Now if you go back to step edit mode you will see two red trigs and 14 yellow usually

If you press/hold Trig 1 whilst in step edit mode with the Trig page active, you will see +19 as black text in an inverted white square - that’s a lock

if you press any yellow Trig next you will not see a white square above NOT, it will be normal white text on black, this ain’t a lock, this is just the default

That is what should happen

If that is not happening, then you have some other process or connection at play during your programming

when I play this back it is still audibly only two pitches with minor blips to the filter where the cutoff dulls the spectrum a bit, but the raw note has NOT been reconfigured

What do you see on the TRIG page for your case and also my step by step example from a new project ?

To make things much easier to hear, select trigs 2345 and lock the filter at 127, do the same for all the yellow trigs, you can do so with multiple yellow ones held down

Now there won’t be any blips in perceived brightness and there should be only two high drones heard, nothing being pulled down nearly two octaves

Are you testing with nothing else connected ??

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-13T00:46:35.831Z

That worked!

I went back to my pattern and recreated it using grid mode. I think my problem was my manually entered trig length was longer and the filter envelope causing the filter to close further and creating a resonant sound that sounded lower in pitch.

Thanks for your help avantronica!