Trigless Lock (unwanted) Pitch Changes

fisherking111 · 2014-11-30T23:42:58.000Z

""avantronica"":

I don’t have an AR yet, but the A4 works similarly, are you saying the initial round of notes you recorded were altered after you applied subsequent parameter locks, or are you saying the trig less locks have a note value of zero, the latter sounds normal and the former sounds odd. Despite reading your posts I’m not exactly sure what it is you’re experiencing, it sounds contradictory or confusing. Fwiw, the process you describe works fine on the A4, so I’d expect it to work fine on the AR, what exactly sounds wrong ?

“the trig less locks have a note value of zero”

“what exactly sounds wrong ?”

Here is a very simple example:

I’m in Chromatic mode, ready to record a melody on an 8 step track.

Here is what I record:

D - - - - - - -

I record one note, a D note. This is 2 semitones above the default note of C, so on the Trig page, when I hold down the trig for the note I recorded it shows “Note: +2”

So I’ll write it like this:

2 - - - - - - -

Now, let’s say I want to do some filter automation for this note which is sustaining throughout the 8 step loop (it could be a sustained synth tone or sample, doesn’t matter). OK. I enter Live Recording mode again, and as it goes through the loop, I sweep the filter. This creates 7 trigless locks, one for each step where I did not play a note in the loop.

Here’s the problem

When the loop plays back, it does not only just playback the filter automation I recorded, but it also changes the sustaining note I recorded in Chromatic mode back to “zero” for the other 7 steps, so now the melody is totally changed to:

2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

it’s now an 8th note at the pitch I want, followed by 7/8ths of a whole note at the “default pitch” of zero. I can only change this in the ways I have mentioned which halts my ability to continue working on the song, to fix this problem.

"the latter sounds normal "

If this is “Normal”, that is very disappointing to me, because it means I can not easily add ANY trigless locks once I’ve recorded a melody. This applies to both Live Recording and Grid Recording modes.

This almost defeats the point of the Chromatic mode entirely for me. It implies that you should only record a live melody once you have already done the parameter locks you want, which is the opposite of how I like to record (and I assume applies to most or many other people’s workflow as well).

It will take me less time to convert every note I play back to zero, and replace the pitch on the Synth and/or Sample patch for each trig, than it would for me to change the “Note” parameter on the Trig page for EVERY Trigless Lock, but either way is quite a hassle. Especially if I’ve got, let’s say, 4-8 notes I recorded and 56-60 trigless locks playing “zero”!

Or am I overlooking something?

I am really surprised no one has mentioned this, I’m still hoping there is something really silly I am just overlooking here…

Thanks for any help or ideas!! I apologize for my frustration! This is my only real qualm with the Rytm, which I think is incredible, and I’m still hoping I can find a solution from someone more knowledgeable than me…

Madchiller · 2014-12-01T06:49:32.000Z

So I have been sitting here trying to figure this out. I am seeing the same issue here. Surely a bug?

fisherking111 · 2014-12-01T08:59:08.000Z

Can anyone confirm if the A4 does or does not have the same problem?

avantronica · 2014-12-01T09:25:40.000Z

The A4 does not do as you experience, i’m surprised the AR does this, the a4 will create a trigless lock with a note value, it has to, it isn’t always a C though, it is whatever you last left the default note at. However, it does not affect the sustaining previous note. You can do that of course, by explicitly plocking pitch (white on black) it sounds to me like that is a bug, but the AR has different sustain and trig mechanisms(for lfo env) etc so i don’t know if there are subtle differences or even settings which could change your outcome. Sounds very odd, it’d drive me nuts too

fisherking111 · 2014-12-03T04:46:09.000Z

I emailed the problem to Elektron. I’ll update this thread when I hear a reply back from them.

Thanks for the confirmation. It must be a bug they will update in the next version I bet…

avantronica · 2014-12-03T13:20:06.000Z

This is what i am getting too, by comparing with the A4 it is different, the issue is clear cut in terms of what the user can see on screen, it’s not consistent, looking fwd to a fix or response. I tested with a synth model on OS 1.02F, yes 1.02F, new machine

Nivekevil · 2015-01-31T02:45:30.000Z

Yes, same concern here. Did you ever get a response email about this?

bkinsman · 2015-01-31T11:36:18.000Z

not too sure if it’s already been mentioned but you don’t have it live record made when you tweak knobs do you as it will record the knob movements, or you don’t have any stay lofts set do you?

Ymsey · 2017-10-12T23:19:32.119Z

Got the same issue with, Digitakt.
Is the problem solved on AR now?
Please let me know, it’s a major problem for me. Trigless created should have by default a nonpitched value, nonvelocited and infinite lengh by default or the the sames as the previous trig

avantronica · 2017-10-13T09:06:38.112Z

Ymsey:

Is the problem solved on AR now?

it looks like it is …

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T14:28:46.536Z

I don’t believe this has been resolved or perhaps I am clueless as to how to continuously record a knob movement.

I just got an MK2 and updated to 1.50.

When I record a sequence in live recording mode, then I sweep the filter, it changes or adds notes to the trigs where there previously was no note and the trigs become yellow.

Is there something I’m doing wrong or a way to correct this?

Thanks

avantronica · 2019-11-11T15:01:16.758Z

Karl_Joseph:

Is there something I’m doing wrong or a way to correct this?

Correct what though ? What is it you believe is wrong about it at present

A Lock Trig (yellow) will have a Note value of zero (unlocked), it will have locks to disable Synth/Samp/Envelope/LFO retriggering and a lock for the parameter you modulated, e.g. Filt Freq

What is it about this which is not right, are you just surprised by the audible & sudden filter opening and confusing this with Trigging

what happens if you set the p-lock value of filter to be exactly the same as the current track sound value ? does it effectively vanish ?

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T15:43:59.137Z

Please excuse me because my knowledge of elektron terminology is novice.

The new lock trig is changing the pitch of my sound where there was no pitch change (or any trigs) prior to live recording of the filter cut-off.

When I go to live record cut-off, why does it add or change the pitch of notes on steps where there is no trigs.

Adding additional pitch change trigs when I’m only trying to record the cut-off sweep doesn’t seem “correct”

If on a word processor you intended to write the word Elektron and instead it read E.l.e.k.t.r.o.n inputting or changing the characters in between to something unintentional?

I’m not trying to be argumentitive, i just don’t understand the purpose of the lock trig also entering a note value on a trig that previously had no note value.

avantronica · 2019-11-11T15:56:34.308Z

Karl_Joseph:

why does it add or change the pitch of notes

I have no idea, it doesn’t do that for me on my tests - how do you replicate your issue from a clear kit clear pattern using the fewest steps possible ?

The Lock Trigs can appear to have a different value (i.e. it’s the track default, relative to other normal trigs in pattern) and as long as they are not highlighted as locked (which you’d have done somehow) then I don’t quite know what you are seeing/expecting

You need to demonstrate using a very simple easily repeatable test

Also be sure to test this whilst connected to NOTHING else, not usb, nor MIDI … keep it simple

avantronica · 2019-11-11T16:08:36.273Z

Are you observing this on a track that is not part of a Voice share out of interest (i.e. 1 2 5 or 6) ?

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T16:30:24.375Z

It is part of a voice share. I’m using Dual VCO on track 3. I’m not at the rytm right now, but I will give it another try this evening.

This isn’t a deal killer by any means, I’m just hoping I don’t have to p lock every step just to make a filter sweep across a 4 measures.

Thanks!

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T16:32:36.317Z

I should say it only does this (changes pitch) on trigs with no data on it (just a blank step) Sorry I don’t know the terminology for a blank step.

avantronica · 2019-11-11T16:43:15.506Z

Karl_Joseph:

I’m just hoping I don’t have to p lock every step just to make a filter sweep across a 4 measures.

But how does that relate to pitch ? - achieving a sweep with the existing steps on a pattern will take planning and slides or an LFO which is only trigged once etc

FWIW The reason I asked about voice share is that a Lock Trig on a subordinate track will mess about with the prime Track Voice in certain circumstances, so to keep it simple use non-shared-voice tracks first - there is a strong likelihood you are just forcing the default parameters of Track 3 to eclipse the Sound of Track 4 when the Lock trig is passed - it will interrupt T4 with T3 values

Karl_Joseph:

it only does this (changes pitch) on trigs with no data on it

you’ll need to list steps to replicate in order to see what’s going on here

Karl_Joseph · 2019-11-11T16:50:49.223Z

So when you live record knob (filter) sweeps, it doesn’t mess with the pitch of empty trigs?

I could totally use the LFO in trigger once mode!

Thanks!

avantronica · 2019-11-11T17:00:46.707Z

Karl_Joseph:

So when you live record knob (filter) sweeps, it doesn’t mess with the pitch of empty trigs?

No, but you need to set out everything else that’s happening (e.g. on T4 etc) - or rather, make a simple repeatable test from scratch, try on track 1 or 2 for comparison