Too tied to DAW plugins for my sound

AphexEscher4422 · 2022-06-20T17:23:06.094Z

I’m actually in a somewhat similar boat. Currently practicing a live set based around the Digitakt sequencing its own internal tracks and my Model:Cycles and Minilogue XD. Using Logic right now with a Scarlett 4i4 and running the DT with the M:C through its internal inputs as 1-2 and the MXD as 3-4.

For me, the limitation is computer processing power; I use my M1 Mac Mini to compose and produce normally, but I’m using my old MBP i5 16gb for portability. I’ve already conceded to using a stock compressor and a filtered sidechain to duck the Minilogue, but I can’t manage to get a similar situation going for the DT/M:C tracks with the DT’s onboard compressor. I initially tried Overbridge to just process everything individually, but that created notable lag and occasional audio artifacts and I’m nervous that that’ll crash the whole thing in a live setting.

Anyone have advice or experience with a setup like this? OP, I completely empathize

Purusha · 2022-06-20T17:24:03.801Z

Octagonist:

I don’t understand this. I also suspect it’s a linguistic or even a mental trick to allow you to move the goalposts rather than make decisions.

Maybe you’re thinking of synth plug-ins rather than effects plug-ins?

No tricks. No goalposts being moved. Why would you even think like that?

E.g. Fabfilter dynamics, EQ and mastering plugins. Reverbs, delays etc.

So, mixing using DAW hosted plugins, from various potential sound-sources.

AphexEscher4422 · 2022-06-20T17:27:14.950Z

I’ve made it this far in NGNY, which means I’m going to have to pretend I didn’t see this

Purusha · 2022-06-20T17:28:08.456Z

I’m glad at least one or two people don’t see to think I’m attempting to somehow trick them on this thread!

I’m avoiding Overbridge for stage-work. Adds a bit too much latency for my liking. Maybe going through A/D conversion would reduce your CPU load?

AphexEscher4422 · 2022-06-20T17:34:14.081Z

It absolutely does - it’s night and day performance-wise just using the Scarlett even with a low buffer versus trying to rig up Overbridge

I do also have to practice with my friend’s PA still (the gig is a block party) so the issue may be moot. But, like you, I just want to make sure things are as best mixed as possible.

Octagonist · 2022-06-20T17:37:53.397Z

Purusha:

No tricks. No goalposts being moved. Why would you even think like that?

E.g. Fabfilter dynamics, EQ and mastering plugins. Reverbs, delays etc.

So, mixing using DAW hosted plugins, from various potential sound-sources.

You started out asking about minimising your live rig whilst continuing to band-limited side-chain your bass with your kick. Now you’re talking about EQs, filters, time fx.

This is what I meant by goalpost moving.

bodymechanics · 2022-06-20T17:39:24.571Z

They’ll still be plenty available in 2023

RabidMusic · 2022-06-20T17:49:33.933Z

Started using computer on stage in the 1980’s with a DOS computer running Jim Miller’s Personal Composer to drive a Yamaha drum machine and a group of TX-7’s. Not because I wanted a computer on stage, but because I couldn’t find the musicians to play the synth based dance music we were doing in our small rural town. It worked, and we worked, finding plenty of jobs with our sound.

Now it is so much easier. The question is not should I use a computer. The real question is do I know how to perform with a computer on stage and not bore the audience. I hate watching acts that hit play and do nothing but adjust the mixer during a song. Consider the computer the back line. Supporting musicians there to make you sound better. Stay involved with the music and look like you are in control.

thermionic · 2022-06-20T17:55:36.011Z

Can you embrace the “rawness” and see it as a different signature sound of yours?

Accept the flaws and wrap them up into the feeling over a direct translation or even interpretation of your favorite studio tricks and tracks.

Distance yourself and reimagine and perhaps you can be not just accepting but excited!

thermionic · 2022-06-20T18:00:52.846Z

RabidMusic:

The question is not should I use a computer. The real question is do I know how to perform with a computer on stage and not bore the audience.

It never has to be all or nothing!

Just played a theater/rock show with a friend who uses a few necessary backing tracks while he built up rhythmic/melodic guitar layers, then played live once the “band” bed was set and locked.

m0ld · 2022-06-20T18:02:08.834Z

Ah, gotcha. I guess I got a bit confused reading through the thread

Your idea of routing the mixer into the DAW is exactly what I was thinking. Idk how well it all works, and latency could be a problem (as I believe others noted below) but it’s worth testing out since you already have a mixer (presumably with usb)!

Mistercharlie · 2022-06-20T18:06:51.390Z

Purusha:

Actually, I’ve been using this forum for years.

Exactly! We’re all as bad each other. I’m sorry my post came across as mean. It was meant to be lighthearted.

reeloy · 2022-06-20T18:10:13.708Z

…let’s agree at least on one thing…if ur set is based on elektron gear, don’t even start to think about using ob in a live stage situation…

Purusha · 2022-06-20T18:12:03.703Z

Last response to you. I really don’t know why you’ve decided to be hostile.

You say moving goalposts. I’d say clarification and expanding my thoughts.

From my opening post:

“I especially miss side-chaining compression or frequency duckers like SmoothOperator.”

^ especially, not exclusively. As-in - for example.

At the end of my opening post:

“I guess one obvious solution, would be to use a laptop purely for the plug-ins and as a mixing device, but that would feel live overkill.”

That covers pretty-much what I’ve been saying all along. If you don’t understand what I’m saying, no problem. Others do.

captain8 · 2022-06-20T18:18:12.508Z

have you thought about using a roland mx-1 mixer, not enough inputs, you can run one into another via usb, also has pseudo side ducking

Purusha · 2022-06-20T18:26:33.960Z

I hadn’t, but that’s an interesting thought. I’d discounted the mx-1 some time ago, due to not considering it as having enough analogue A/D at the time. …but I might take another look.

Cheers!

bodymechanics · 2022-06-20T18:26:57.535Z

I REALLY wish more companies would attempt some kind of performance mixer, especially Elektron

Purusha · 2022-06-20T18:30:07.316Z

bodymechanics:

I REALLY wish more companies would attempt some kind of performance mixer, especially Elektron

I think it was my main ask of Elektron on the Wishlist / what should we do next.

A&H’s digital desks probably come closest, but they’re missing those useful bits like - side chain compression.

I’d also consider the Pioneer mixers, connected to a laptop for the effects. That might at least give me some performance flexibility…?

chrisroland · 2022-06-20T18:30:22.971Z

i admit i’ve been out of the production side of house/techno for years (and even when i was trying to make tracks, never really got into the engineering side of it) but weren’t pretty much all pre-DAW tracks written and produced without sidechain compression? i hadn’t even heard the term until a few months ago and never found any of the old school mixes to be muddy on the low end – the great ones are clear as a bell with bass and kicks.

Purusha · 2022-06-20T18:32:46.816Z

chrisroland:

admit i’ve been out of the production side of house/techno for years (and even when i was trying to make tracks, never really got into the engineering side of it) but weren’t pretty much all pre-DAW tracks written and produced without sidechain compression? i hadn’t even heard the term until a few months ago and never found any of the old school mixes to be muddy on the low end – the great ones are clear as a bell with bass and kicks.

Possibly depends a bit on the genre. With dense frequency spreads per part, side-chain can really make a difference. I could dig out loads of psy/prog from the 90s, which might have been innovative at the time, but production-wise, it really could have used some of the more modern techniques.

Even tracks from my favourite producers at the time had this problem. I know some of them, through my promotion and DJing work, and the ones I’ve talked to on the subject, do agree with me on that.