Tips for making *fat* kick drums?

jamrod · 2015-01-22T02:15:38.000Z

I’ve had good results using the bass tom for kicks. Also the low tom – different sound that I find takes overdrive better than the BT.

djd_oz · 2015-01-22T04:31:28.000Z

Try layering it with a sample.

naraka · 2015-01-22T06:14:26.000Z

In addition to the peak filter, I’ve obtained some really nice results with HP filter too, just set it low enough and adjust the resonance to taste.

JuanSOLO · 2015-01-22T15:54:35.000Z

Someone pm’d me about a kick/long sub decay from a video I made.
It happens to be one of my favorites I’ve made so far.
I use this one to get a nice short kick, and a long boomy sub by turning up the decay.
I hardly know what I am doing with compression, dont judge me to hard, it just sounded good to me.

BD HARD
Tune -17
Sweep Time 42
Snap Amount 32
Decay 30 for short, turn it up for long.
Waveform 2
Hold 23
Tic 0
Level 107

I use an Ableton DMX kick drum sample with the Level at 28.
Tune -3

Filter Settings
Attack 0
Decay 29
Sustain 0
Release 63
Freq 67
Res 6
Type LP1
Env +15

Amp section
Attack 0
Hold Auto
Decay 114
Overdrive 3
Vol 127

AR Compressor settings.
Threshold 98
Attack 10
Release A2
Makeup 58
Ratio 1:8
Seq Off
Mix 13
Vol 100

Gummi · 2015-01-23T00:19:11.000Z

honestly the kicks are the easiest to dial in, its a giant sweet spot (at least to my ears). Dialing in good hi hats is much more of a challenge

Elektronot · 2015-01-25T01:52:34.000Z

Here’s a kick, if you want to check it out.

BDFM

Tune -15
SWT 45
FMD 15
DEC 60
FMT -30

AMP

Dec 64
OVR 8

fachperson · 2015-05-26T22:34:06.000Z

I find that the kicks i like typically have a tail very dominant around 60hz. And typically, those tails sound a bit dirty.

So what I do is add some pretty fast LFO on the kick’s pitch and set the fade to a slightly negative value. choosing different waveforms gives different kick tails.

Then compressing is key. The problem is the AR’s high noise level which gets magnified at certain comp settings.

R7 · 2015-05-27T03:50:50.000Z

I just posted these by request of TrabanT in another thread but it seems fitting for a repost here.

BD HARD

Fast and hard sweep kick
TUN -12
SWT 99
SNP 0
DEC 40
WAV 0
HLD 127
TIc 17
LEV 90 OVR 25

SHORT CLICKY (Great for retrigs and high BPM)
-TUN -7
SWT 96
SNP 83
DEC 0
WAV 1
HLD 100
TIC 80
LEV 90

I think the BD Hard kicks sound great right away but they benefit from longer hold times for more body and some overdrive for girth.

BD CLASSIC

Basic utilitarian kick
TUN -12
SWT 75
SWD 40
DEC 50
WAV 0
HLD 50
TRA 1
LEV 90

Laser kick
TUN -12
SWT 68
SWD 70
DEC 50
WAV 0
HLD 50
TRA 1
LEV 90

BD classic is all about playing with the SWT and SWD to find a sweet spot.

FM
Acoustic drum
TUN -12
SWT 69
FMD 17
DEC 67
FMT +5
FMS 63
FMA 122
LEV 90

Lots of FM to the body
TUN 0
SWT 70
FMD 30
DEC 53
FMT -12
FMS 100
FMA 50

The FM machine is awesome, you can craft your own transient out of the FM sound by keeping the FM Decay short. It also can make all kinds of weird metallic sounds that I really enjoy but these two examples are specifically kick drums.

And while I think the Rytm’s compressor is generally too noisy to record with, some compression (however you do it) with long attack times to preserve transients and very fast release times can add alot of punch to drum sounds. Also the Rytm’s Distortion is very powerful on kicks. Instant hardstyle. Config the track routing so only the kick is getting smashed by the Distortion for recording.

TrabanT · 2015-05-27T05:52:02.000Z

and TrabanT is very happy about this… hmmm morning coffee and kick design!

mkdsl · 2015-05-27T08:19:42.000Z

I find kicks very easy to make… In fact the entire low end is enormous!
Just used it in a live setting in a venue that has a LOT of subwoofers… I played the rytm along with a friends dj set… The kick cut through like something else.
The (over)produced music on it’s own just couldn’t achieve that sort of dynamic range… It was like there is no groove when i turn the rytm off… I am very happy about it :D.
As for the settings, i would recomend that you invest in a sub, the best tools are ears, after all.
If you do, say hi to the neigbours for me
X—X---X–xX-x- is the pattern for hello, play it for 15 minutes straight at max volume.

TrabanT · 2015-05-29T15:15:45.000Z

""R7"":

I just posted these by request of TrabanT in another thread but it seems fitting for a repost here.

BD HARD

Fast and hard sweep kick
TUN -12
SWT 99
SNP 0
DEC 40
WAV 0
HLD 127
TIc 17
LEV 90 OVR 25

SHORT CLICKY (Great for retrigs and high BPM)
-TUN -7
SWT 96
SNP 83
DEC 0
WAV 1
HLD 100
TIC 80
LEV 90

I think the BD Hard kicks sound great right away but they benefit from longer hold times for more body and some overdrive for girth.

BD CLASSIC

Basic utilitarian kick
TUN -12
SWT 75
SWD 40
DEC 50
WAV 0
HLD 50
TRA 1
LEV 90

Laser kick
TUN -12
SWT 68
SWD 70
DEC 50
WAV 0
HLD 50
TRA 1
LEV 90

BD classic is all about playing with the SWT and SWD to find a sweet spot.

FM
Acoustic drum
TUN -12
SWT 69
FMD 17
DEC 67
FMT +5
FMS 63
FMA 122
LEV 90

Lots of FM to the body
TUN 0
SWT 70
FMD 30
DEC 53
FMT -12
FMS 100
FMA 50

hi R7 …thanks again for making the effort to write the parameters for the kicks… I tried it all… it is a lot of fun for me to follow somebody elses footsteps… furthermore I had some fairly decent result… cheers bro!!!

SB-SIX · 2015-05-29T15:26:58.000Z

For me it works best with a LPF. Set a quick envelope on the LPF to let the thumb through and lower the cutoff to the point the bass is nice and full. Add resonance for even more lowend. It keeps the tail clean and full this way

R7 · 2015-05-29T21:19:00.000Z

""TrabanT"":

hi R7 …thanks again for making the effort to write the parameters for the kicks… I tried it all… it is a lot of fun for me to follow somebody elses footsteps… furthermore I had some fairly decent result… cheers bro!!!

Your welcome, I had a lot of fun making them.

Elastic_Membrane · 2015-05-30T00:12:18.000Z

""mkdsl"":

I find kicks very easy to make… In fact the entire low end is enormous!
Just used it in a live setting in a venue that has a LOT of subwoofers… I played the rytm along with a friends dj set… The kick cut through like something else.
The (over)produced music on it’s own just couldn’t achieve that sort of dynamic range… It was like there is no groove when i turn the rytm off… I am very happy about it :D.
As for the settings, i would recomend that you invest in a sub, the best tools are ears, after all.
If you do, say hi to the neigbours for me
X—X—X–xX-x- is the pattern for hello, play it for 15 minutes straight at max volume

Nice!
I agree the Rytm is great alongside a DJ set. Adds some low end and you can distort and compress to taste at will.

Elektronot · 2015-05-30T00:28:58.000Z

Layering and modulation has been working good for me

t · 2015-05-30T06:45:53.000Z

Layering some bass tom below the kick can also help greatly.

takadoum · 2015-06-01T13:24:55.000Z

Hi all, and thanks for these tips !
OK, first message here, so these 2 cents will be my introduction.
Glad to meet you all.

My every day kick design process,… Ha ha, so corporate style, sorry

First I choose the synth machine…

BD Hard most of the time, for techno, mental techno, hardtechno, trance
BD Classic for soft acid or techno, but mainly for hardcore, as a long deep laser sweep can be more crunched with distorsion !
BD FM for all kind of different and weird kicks (or other sounds)

Notice I have some common settings for almost all my kicks :
Synth section :

No click at all (I use filter enveloppe to shape this, see below), or sometimes just a tiny bit to sound sharper than filter enveloppe
Filter section :
Peak filer, cutoff 36, res 64 (this mades loud sub bass, at least in my room)
Filter attack, sustain & release : default values (can’t remember them)
Amp attack, hold : default values
Synth level 90-127, but most of the time I don’t care because I always use a bit of distorsion, and it changes level so much !
Amp level 127

Then I have parameters that I tweak, but usually within a specific range.
For BD Hard :

tune -24/+12, depending on track key, other bass sounds, feeling, etc. usually below 0 sounds darker, and above 0 sounds louder and more resonnant, especially with my filter settings
sweep time 80-110, sweep amount 90-127, depending on which “punch” I need
decay 0-110, depending on track style and mood (for instance I like long decays for mental bouncing kick/bass, short for acid techno or trance, middle for hardtechno, combinated with another track for bass sound)
wav 0, 1 or 2 for timber, but I like them all ! usually wav 1 sounds cool for psy-trance, as attack sounds sharper and snappier to me
attack 0-127, yeah, short range it really depends on kick style, but I usually keep it above 64, I like plain sounding kicks ; although sometimes when tune at 0 or above, I keep attack low to prevent too much resonnance or loudness ; and when decay is long, I tend to reduce attack to have a beautiful bouncing tail
filter decay 0-20, filter enveloppe, 0-40, I use them to shape punch attack or click, for instance +30-35 for env can bring some crisp smashed trance or psy-trance attack (sorry for my english, hope it makes sense) ; but usually keep them low, like dec & env 0-10 (good old solid kicks)
amp decay 0-127, I sometimes use it to shape tail, with combination of synth decay, but usually I leave to 127 and use only synth decay
distorsion 5-20 for soft kicks, 20-60 for stronger, and up to 127 for hard ones !
For BD Classic, same as above except :
filter cutoff lower, like 10-30, to prevent too much resonance
sweep time under 60 for classic and soft kicks (can be powerfull though, but stay “clean”), sweep amount as you wish, depending on punch you need
sweep time 60-80 for hardcore kicks, over 80 for laser fun
For BD FM :
well I just tweak FM params and well… it’s not always successfull and I often switch back to Classic or Hard

All this was for the body of the kick. Then I use LFO to modulate pitch or volume (or sometimes filter) to get some really bouncing

About levels… Well, I tried to keep headroom in the beginning, but now I just set 127 for synth & amp level, and play with distorsion to adjust loudness, for I noticed than adding a bit of distorsion was the same as increasing volume (when volume between 90 and 110 for instance).

So this is pure theory, and I think you can do pretty much any kick with any machine, fitting any track style… Just a way to make draft kicks faster, and then I adjust (well, unfortunately adjusting can sometimes take a few days !).

I try to give you examples in the next message !
Cheers from Toulouse, France !

takadoum · 2015-06-02T12:39:02.000Z

Hi again !

So I was thinking, instead of giving examples without explanations, let’s try to start from scratch and tweak knobs That’s what I do each time I start a tune. No preset, no saved kit, no pattern, no nothing.

First step, tune a classic kick with BD Hard machine :
Sweep 94, snap 26, decay 0, wav 0/1, hold 127, tic 0.
Tune between -64 and +10 is ok for me. Below -20 for fat sub bass, above to hear a plain pitch. I find it better for sculpting bounce afterwhile when above -10.
From here, you can adjust sweep and snap to get what you like. For instance, snap 127 to make add solid punch-click, then sweep 120 for agressive pitch attack.
You can also add a bit of amp overdrive to make it louder. If you have a strong attack, stay below 5 to stay clean, if it’s soft (sweep/snap <100/<100), maybe go for 10.

At this point you can start tweaking filter or tune the key or sculpt the tail. OR everything at the same time because now everything is linked.

First let’s get back to amp overdrive 0 because it changes timber a lot.

When I tune below -20, I never increase decay because I have no sub at home, so tail is really ugly.
Howevere, above -20 I can start sculpting the tail.

For instance, tune 0, decay 72. Pitch is very audible. You can now try wav 2 to have a dirtier tail, I like this one. Notice you can’t hear it with overdrive…
We already have a good boucing kick here !
For this kind of bounce, I like to have not so strong pitch attack, because it cancels the effect, well I just don’t like it ! So sweep time below 100.
Try decreasing decay, like 45, to have a different bounce.
Try hold 0 decay 97 for massive plain bounce, I love it.
Try again wav 0/1, overdrive 0-10, it changes the tail sound, much softer.
Overdrive above 15 starts to get more hardcore. With hold 127 and decay 60-80, good little hardcore kicks, decay above 80, boucing again !

When I say bounce, it’s soft bounce, but we can change this with LFO later.

Let’s try another tuning, like tune -14, sweep 95, snap 599, decay 34, hold 127, overdrive 2. Good one, overdrive 4-5 for loudness.
From there you have loads of good solid kicks for techno. If you reduce sweep below 80 you can tweak some good minimal ones.
With wav 1 you get some different sound, difficult to explain, because depends on other params, actually ! For these settings wav 1 gives me a beautiful round bass, so decay 100 to bounce it

Ok you get the thing… just start with some params you like, usually I start with sweep/snap, then tune, then hold/decay, and try some wav/overdrive combinations !

Now let’s tweak the filter, that’s where the fun really starts, imho.
Tune a normal kick, like tune -14, sweep 91, snap 104, decay 0, wav 1, hold 127, overdrive 0.
I assume that filter attack & sustain are 0, release 64.
Now put decay 0, env 0.

Lowpass can give you some nice dark kick with cutoff below 50, no more attack, but good bass. Increase resonance to fatten. For instance cutoff 40, res 20, lowpass2 is cool.
Now if you want to shape click or attack, use decay & env, like decay 0, env 0-64 for high solid click, decay 10 env 32 for stronger attack, decay 32, env 14 for filtered click, and so on…

Of course anytime you can change wav or add a bit of overdrive to get fatter ! overdrive below 10 though, if you want to stay clean.

Now increase resonance, and you can hear the filter self resonating pitch. So use resonance like some kind of filter pitch decay and adjust tuning with cutoff.
You will notice that depending on the cutoff, you can have very long tails or nothing, or different timbers. I guess this is phase cancelation, because you have two low frequencies fighting for room : oscillator pitch and filter self oscillation pitch. Play with this to simply sculpt your tail !
For instance cutoff 33 res 75 will bounce nicely.

All this cutoff/res and decay/env can also be applied to the following.

So the following is that I use highpass or peak to keep the highs and be more solid. It suits more my style.
Let’s try cutoff 23, res 47, highpass2, env 17, decay 10, amp overdrive 6. See ?
The switch to peak, cutoff 25, res 73, nice too.
Now let’s sculpt a little more.
Synth decay 74, cutoff 32, res 61… Great bouncing again !
Try overdrive 127 to hear a cool hardcore bouncing kick
Try wav 1 for harder !
Sweep 102 for more…
Amp decay 127 is even better.

At this point, notice that when you mute kick track, long decays let you play with knobs to sculpt the tail for a few seconds. Nice to have some good transitions instead of sudden cut.

Final thought… LFO !
I use it for bouncing even more, or for weird effects.
I just give you an example of bouncing kick I like, and you can elaborate anything from there.
Let’s dial a plain kick : tune 2, sweep 93, snap 82, dec 99, wav 1, hold 127, overdrive 34, cutoff 35, res 64, peak, env 22, env dec 8. Like it ?
Then LFO : speed 44, mul x2, dst “tune”, wave triangle, mode half, depth 37.
I love that.
Then tweak speed and depth to adjust amount of pitch rebound and timing (offbeat or farther).

Well, hope all this makes sense and that it’s… readable.
Feel free to comment or send other tricks !
I understand that’s this kind of kick may not suit your style, but for me this process is a good way to discover new kicks every day, and not sticking to the same again and again (each tune should have its own !), so you should find what you like doing this, and even more
I also know it may seem obvious to a lot of people out there… But I spent a lot of time wondering if rytm was the right kind of gear for me, so I wanted to say to beginners that everything is possible with it. At least for kicks.
And believe me, if you try BD FM, you can find some really nasty things.

By the way I don’t use layering because filter is common to synth and sample, too hard to tweak. However I tried some cool attack samples and result was amazing, but I’m too lazy to look for and organize sounds and kits, so I stick with the synths for now, and I’m more productive than before, lost in the samples jungle

Sometimes I use low tom machine as bouncing bass with a BD Hard dry kick, but the problem is you can’t play them both live with pads or alter pattern at the same time for both, so I prefer sculpting kick/bass with only BD machine and have fun on a single track !

Hope this helps, happy boucing day !

EDIT: Sorry, all this was at 190 BPM, but you are allowed to go down until 180. Below it’s not music

De_wouzer · 2015-06-02T12:59:20.000Z

listen to the beats you like… I found out many of these beats are not as heavy as I thought they were.

takadoum · 2015-06-02T16:13:17.000Z

@Dewouzer, yes, I agree, I’m not after the heaviest kick ever. I prefer bouncing, and it usually needs “lightness” But fat lightness I guess. At least in my room it’s OK, but talking about basses, I guess it may be thin with other room dimensions or shapes. Too bad.

And when I need some real heavy, I do it afterwhile on the wall mix so that it’s coherent with other pieces of gear. Otherwise it’s often difficult to mix.

Nevertheless, beef up sweep/snap/overdrive and try different combinations of cutoff frequency, filter env decay and depth, and you can get heavy. Also add more sweep with LFO on BD tune and you can crunch more.

And I would be glad to know your tips/tricks or to hear your heavyness, I’m curious cause sometimes I need real fat hardcore kicks and I have to switch to DAW and samples with layers of EQ / COMP / FILTER / DISTORSION / EQ / COMP / FILTER…