The Behringer era

The Lounge General Discussion
#21

why stop at one country? what about vietnam and combodia? you could even throw in australia and england for the way they treat the migrant workers working on farms, plus many other countries that take advantage of the poorest in their society.

I do live in china, i’m from the uk but have lived here for 5-6 years. i also live in one of the poorest regions in the country. things are changing, but the chinese culture will never fit into the ideals of western standards. for example, i used to live with a family that had 4 generations living in one house. the house was huge, i think maybe 15 rooms. but the family lived in maybe in 3-4 rooms. they rented on room to me, the others are empty. They liked living like this, it was their choice. Chinese people are sociable, like company, like to live closely with each other. there will often be 3 beds in a bedroom. the same will be for university students. 6 beds to a room. the same size room in europe will often have 2 beds.

however, i do feel there is an imbalance, not just in china but across the world. the western media will feed you negative stories about china, they will focus on the working conditions and tell you that this is the fault of the chinese government. but they will rarely call out tim cook or the shareholders and investors for this. it was the same for the 2007 financial crisis, the governments were blamed but the people running the financial organisations generally got away free of blame, and often with a hefty payoff.

in an ideal world, people would be paid fairly, have good working conditions and job security, products would be fairly priced and big business, banks, investors, shareholders and other organisations involved in the global financial markets wouldn’t be paid the huge sums of money that they currently are.

if you hate the chinese then do boycott the country but, as we have seen many times in the past, boycotts only hit the poorest people harder.

sorry for the rant but i do get frustrated about the views being spouted about china.

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#22

A good point. And if one was to truly get on their high horse about this Behringer tale then that would be a natural progression. I didn’t particularly mean to single out China but that’s where Behringers problems currently lie and China are probably the biggest player in the “tech space”.

I suspect working practices in places like China receive the attention they do due to circumstances created out of our “global community”. So much of the upcoming economies (China/India/etc) are built on dreadful practices that it becomes incredibly easy for the West to point fingers and shake heads - though, crucially, to continue snapping up products. Broadly speaking, these countries are only following in the footsteps of more “mature” economies - the UK relied heavily on child labour in Victorian times, US and others on slave labour, etc, etc, etc.

Having said that, there has been plenty of negative press around Western companies reliance on Chinese factories. An imbalance? Perhaps, but it was there and has been quite prevalent. As others note, it’s difficult not to fall into a pit of hypocrisy writing negative articles about Apple when your average journo probably uses a Mac (for example). Sadly, I just don’t think your average Joe gives much of a shit how their iPhone or NFL jersey or whatever is made.

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#23

Behringer’s the problem?? Puh-lease! 30 people a year kill themselves in Apple factories. Same thing with the other smartphone factories.

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#24

Fairtrade coffee is possible - why not fairtrade electronics?

In general it would be highly favorable if we get products that are actually serviceable. Maybe a company which does this, will be the next big thing.

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#25

thanks for understanding and apologies for jumping on your post.

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#26

yeah, i would like to return to the times when i could call up someone to repair my tv or fridge.

but the throw away society ( an i am part of this for sure) has been cultivated by the electronics and insurance industries, as well as financing companies and banks.

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#27

Lets not forget that they have also threatened legal action against that blog for calling them out,
Its not the first time they have done this and Uli himself has done it publicly to members of gearslutz.

If he can’t rise above stuff like that what sort of “Disruptor” is he?
He’s just a bad p***k if you ask me :slight_smile:

#28

Slowly over the next year I’ll be divesting myself of all mass-produced items.
I feel very strongly that I don’t want to be part of the consumption of these things. I no longer want anything to do with that system which both stokes my desires and is dependent on them. I can’t help feeling that human life is so valuable that to give it over to a factory production line 12 hours a day is a tradgedy.
I’ve debated whether to get into Eurorack and I think there at least are manufacturers producing products they love and that are made by people happy to do the construction.
Some points about hypocrisy: It’s only possible to call someone a hypocrite if you (the accuser) have never been hypocritical. And this is a difficult call. I don’t know anyone who hasn’t been hypocritical at some point. To reduce is better than to amplify and I think that’s the important point.
About Uli’s statement - his workers have a different point of view and there is no smoke without fire. From what I understand worker strikes in China are quite rare and only occur if something serious has taken place. But still, making these cheap clones in China doesn’t fit with my philosophy and I’ll be boycotting.

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#29

Unfortunately, I don’t see a third world neighborhood pooling resources to build a chip fab plant.

Regarding serviceability, I’d love that so much. I miss the days when a product was expected to work for decades. RoHS and products made with SMT components have created significant barriers in this regard.

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#31

Yes, i understand this , i did build electronics myself. (Measurement devices.) I dont see why it shouldnt be possible to work with socket technology. Even modern cpu´s work with sockets. If this approach would be taken for other electronic equipment one could reuse those chips on other boards.

With FPGA (free programmable gate arrays) its even possible to reconfigure the chip. (If a chip in a current configuration is utilizable as CPU on a computer mainboard, it may serve in the future as controller for household electronic, or easy replaced on the same board.)

I think the technology is there - it just needs some tweaking. Currently the situation is one chip /diode /transistor fails, the complete mainboard is replaced. If these small items get modlularized again - servicing would be possible even with current high frequency circuit.

Each mainboard should have a digital check routine, which identify the broken chip , or a voltage /current measurement for failed parts. I think that would be possible with a 2-10 € chip even for complex boards.

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#32

Its not ridiculous. Its logic. Its hypocritical to call someone hypocritical if you have been hypocritical.
I don’t think many people understand this because I see the hypocrisy argument being made quite often. Similarly its not possible to accuse someone of virtue signalling, because to do so is also virtue signalling. And so on.
Logic.

#33

To add a twist to the tale Behringer is suing the website that reported the factory troubles. The strange thing is that Behringer is suing them not because of the factory report but because in a few articles the Chinese website called Behringers latest products shameless copies. Which is quite something considering how much copying has been going on in China. But in any case you can read up about it here: http://cdm.link/2018/06/behringer-threatens-legal-action-against-a-site-that-called-it-a-copycat/

#35

Thats not logic… thats pedantic logic, actually not sure its even logic :slight_smile:

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#36

I’m wondering where you think the rest of your consumer electronics come from ?

#37

IMO, even if as you all say, all electronics, clothes food mass manufacturers use the same kind of methods, I still think it’s better to take small steps (for example boycotting one of the more outrageous of these actors) than doing nothing.
It’s still a positive with no negatives, whereas the other option is the status quo.

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#38

To be quiet honest, I really feel sad seeing someone taking a step in the right direction, and seeing everyone else being super cynical in response.
Good steps, even small ones, are still good steps.

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#39

I think these people don’t really care about chinese workers rights. They just hate Behringer for various reasons and that’s why they are now suddenly big defenders of chinese workers…

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#40

That blog is a spammy ad dump anyways.

Hardly a bastion of journalistic integrity.

#41

Ignore the bores pontificating about hypocrisy and logical extension to life lived by some total ethical code.

It’s simple. If you care about this kind of thing you’ll factor it in as a consideration when you buy stuff. Luckily more people are starting to care, and their TENDENCIES as consumers, whether hardcore boycotting or just preferring companies with better/more transparent credentials WILL have an effect. Small shifts in buying habits can have a big effect if margins are tight.

Even the discussion has an effect, (especially if it can stay on topic and not dissolve into elaborate excuses for ignoring the problem). It gets companies worrying about reputation even if they aren’t worrying about actual working conditions. If some prominent independent youtuber :wink: was to bring this sort of thing up live at industry showcase events you’d see some responses!

So if Behringer get the impresssion that enough ppl care about this kind of thing the same way they care about individual outs or complete analog paths or whatever, they’ll act on it.

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#42

You’re right, but it’s difficult to take an informed step hence the (almost, as @darenager said) impossibility of ethical consumption:

  • Pricer items aren’t necessarily produced in more ethical ways, although some research can be done prior to the purchase
  • Those Behringer employees are on strike to improve their working conditions, which is good, but what good will come to them from not buying the product they produce anymore?

The line has to be drawn somewhere and I think it’s good as @Clancy said to raise consciousness about these issues, but I’m afraid most people will contend themselves for having dodged the bullet of globalization in the world of synths, while buying another Foxconn smartphone every two year.

Not speaking about environmental issues, which make the problem even more complex.

Nevertheless I fully agree on the fact that it’s good to take (even small) steps in the right direction.

1 Like