Here’s an idea that came up when the new moderators were volunteering for the various Elektronauts forums. How about we make a thread where in order to post a track, you have to give a constructive review of the track above?
I don’t know about anybody else, but I feel like there’s something wrong when three quarters of the most recent posts in here have no comments on. It’s also a little sad when you look at the profiles of those posters and see that they have made no contribution to any other discussions.
I’m hoping the review-and-post idea will reward people who take the time to offer constructive support to other artists - the rewards being support in turn from the next poster and having your track in a thread that should naturally remain near the top.
What does everybody think? Would it work? Would we need to set a minimum length for your review (say, 50 words? longer?)? Should we limit the number of tracks a person can post (say one per month)?
Any thoughts appreciated… along with any other suggestions to stop this corner of Elektronauts turning into Soundcloud!
If I post a track… and I dont read anything about it within lets say 48hours…
I just feel the track isnt up2par/you guys taste… whine a bit about it…
and make the next song…
I do get your point… its difficult to get genuine constructive thoughts on your track.
its either :
You suck enough to write to you you suck… (luckaly, this doesnt happen on elektronauts… more other fora)
Wow, this is hot, I bet this is what snoop dog dropped…
the counterpoint would be: There is so much music of great quality on the net.
Its allot more fun to put your time in that, then if you have to explain to every chump that picks up a drumcomputer what you feel is wrong with their stuff…
So I would almost say… try to find about 10 friends you trust… and let them actually judge things… let the others just be public… My friends dont like my music at all… and basicly… I have a hard time promoting my stuff… because everybody agrees with those 10 friends.
anyways… if you really want me to play simon cowel… just pull my hair in a PM
and I will give you some of my time… I dont mind being one of your 10 friends.
I like the idea! and I am no maestro myself, but it’s more about attitude than results here in my opinion.
I would enjoy a thread where we can post our music, perhaps we can start a new thread each month ie. Elektronauts Music March Edition etc.
To start, I think one ongoing thread to post all our creations/work in progress/doodles would be nice.
Ohpeewon has an “op-1 tracks” thread which might not get a ton of feedback but keeps a clear separation between minor and major releases from forum members.
Great suggestion, would love to see a stronger culture of music/sound creation here and this would be an effective way to start.
Giving constructive criticism or advice is very difficult. I would personally LOVE to get some, but an online forum doesn’t really work for that, at least not very often.
Yeah I have all my tracks on one thread too. It usually gets bumped from the front page within a day!
Thanks for your thoughts guys. I guess the idea is worth trying out, but might not be everybody’s cup of tea.
Maybe I need to ask a more fundamental question: what is this Our Music forum for? If the definition of ‘forum’ is a place to discuss things, then how else can we stimulate some good discussion about our own music? I take the points that people may not want to discuss things, but if there’s no discussion, can it truly be called a forum?
Going back to my idea, it sounds like nirun is up for it. I guess if we can find five more people then we can make a start.
A forum that I was previously active on had a policy of commenting on at least 2 other tunes before posting your own.
It worked pretty well, and I think may be a bit better than just commenting on the tune above. It meant that people had to actively listen and search for tunes they wanted to comment on and had something constructive to offer, rather than just paying lip service to the rule.
Although it meant that there would still be a chance your tune could end up with no feedback, in reality, pretty much all offerings got some kind of response.
Just a suggestion.
I’m guilty of posting a track without commenting on other tracks (I have ‘liked’ people’s soundcloud stuff though). I’d be willing to comment on other songs, but I must say I’m generally impressed by what’s on here, and even feel a little outclassed by it, being just a hobbyist myself.
That’s a neat idea in principle. It might be tricky to implement different posting privileges on this particular forum and have mods keep track of who had offered some comments on other tunes.
I guess a better solution might be a voluntary change in culture. If we all take time to comment on other people’s tunes more, we can hopefully expect to receive some love in return. Maybe I’ll just post the occasional nag to remind people to comment and set an example by commenting more myself, with a bit of favouritism towards more active members.
Don’t try to force people to engage in ways they aren’t doing, naturally, on their own. If people don’t participate in feedback the way you wish they would, then perhaps this is the wrong place for getting the type of feedback you want (This is a forum intentionally focused on Elektron machines. The MEDIA feature is just a bonus ).
Who cares if someone comments on tracks or not? You can’t force people to participate in the way you wish they would. Some people don’t care, some people don’t want to take the time, and some people don’t know what to say.
Let’s say you have a rule that a poster has to past at least two comments before posting a track of their own. Well then you’re going to get lots of posts that say trite things like “Nice track” or “Mandatory comment 1”, and that’s it.
I just don’t think creating more rules is the answer to getting constructive feedback on tracks.
Agreed.
There’s a natural ebb and flow to a music forum.
I will now share with you the secret to having your work listened to and reviewed:
Review the work of others.
That’s it. Get comfortable and listen to some tracks by your fellow Elektronauts. Then, tell them how you feel. You don’t have to write anything profound.
Eventually people begin relating to particular individuals and their music, casual relationships form, perhaps a collaboration ensues.
This is where the rubber meets the road, folks, and presumably it’s why we’re all here.
Let’s do a brainstorm on how we can improve this section of the forum …
Would a rating system work? (e.g. rate it out of ten and a few words)
How about creating a little template for commenting/rating various aspects of the music help/prompt people to think about what they like/don’t like about the piece work? (e.g. structure, mixing, sound design etc.)
Keep in mind, that we are only talking about 1 thread here. Obviously the entire sub forum is not going to be downsized to a “comment and post” only platform. The ability to post randomly and sparatically still exist.
What is being discussed here is a single thread based on honest criticing. I think the best thing to do here, is post a thread titled “critic corner” or something of the nature. Let it be known that posting in this thread is to get and give honest criticism (good and bad) for the purpose of personal growth and as well as the community.
Start the thread, and let it be known that in order to post music in it for criticing, you must do so yourself. If anybody is not comfortable with it, they can post their music in their own thread, as is the case now…but don’t expect a response unless one is merited. Those willing to contribute to the critic corner, know what to expect and how to achieve it.
Not everybody is going to be into it, and that’s totally fine. Obviously. Maybe a few people that are truly interested in what their peers are accomplishing, make an effort and make it work.
I see what this could accomplish, but again, I feel like it’s making a simple thing too complicated.
Honor system is key here. Post some music and give your definition of an honest review of somebody else’s in the thread. Those not contributing will have their post deleted…which we can do with our awesome mod powers!
I like the idea of a suggested template. I also like the idea of not overcomplicating it.
Perhaps the first post could explain the reason for doing this, explain that participation is optional(!), that honest but friendly criticism is encouraged.
Then it could offer some prompts on topics such as structure/mixing/sound design, to help in case reviewers/posters hit a writer’s block.
I’m busy until tomorrow now. I can draft the first post tomorrow, but of course one of you guys is welcome to draft something.
Agreed.
There’s a natural ebb and flow to a music forum.
I will now share with you the secret to having your work listened to and reviewed:
Review the work of others.
That’s it. Get comfortable and listen to some tracks by your fellow Elektronauts. Then, tell them how you feel. You don’t have to write anything profound.
Eventually people begin relating to particular individuals and their music, casual relationships form, perhaps a collaboration ensues.
This is where the rubber meets the road, folks, and presumably it’s why we’re all here.[/quote]
Wise words. That being said, the small E-U community which sparked familiarity with almost the whole user-base seems to be the past, so it is understandable some individuals are trying to improve things which now are now what they are. Life is all about give & take
Looking for some honest, constructive feedback on your Elektron creations? Here’s the thread to get it, for a small price…
If you want to post a track in this thread, you first need to give a constructive review of a recently posted track (ideally one that has not yet been reviewed).
We know it’s not always easy to know what to say, so this is a suggested template to help you through your writer’s block:
[ol]
[li]Overall feeling and effect of the music.[/li]
[li]Individual sounds.[/li]
[li]Arrangement and structure.[/li]
[li]Best thing about the track.[/li]
[li]If you had to change one thing about it…[/li]
[/ol]
Don’t feel obliged to use that template but do aim to make at least five points. If you don’t make an effort then your post may be deleted. You can always start your own thread if you just want to post your own tracks.
A note about the spirit of this thread - please don’t be mean! Most artists on here are creating music in a little bit of spare time between work and family life - and many are just starting out. Even if you think a track is flawed, please suggest improvements in the spirit of friendship.
Finally, if you do post here, expect to get honest feedback. Remember that the feedback is just one person’s opinion! Also, you might get more useful feedback if you include a short explanation with your own track as well.
Does that look okay? If so, it would be good to have a couple of people ready to submit the first few tracks and reviews so others have some examples to follow.
Looks pretty good. Im a tad hesitant about the “last track” thing, but i understand its purpose. While guaranteeing each track gets some sort of feedback, it may not be the best way to progress the thread over a long period of time. Perhaps a few people dont really want to comment on the last track and that pushes them away from the idea all together, but they love the track 5 post up and have a ton to say about it. Perhaps it could be more along the lines of “pick one of the more recent post” giving a bit of room to explore. You dont want people avoiding all of the older stuff because they technically only have to pay attention to the most recent post, or what if you take the time to write out a good review of something and post your track, and somebody has just posted their track with a fast review of the one you just did, but they did it quicker. Or: What if i post one of my tracks, which are all over 1hr+ long and nobody want to take the time to listen and offer feedback, so it stalls the entire process.
People should have the room to choose what inspires them to contribute more feedback, but also with the knowledge that if you notice a post isnt getting any feedback, give it a listen and try to understand why… then tell the person.
As an aside: i was just thinking that another similar thread could be interested with the identical set up as listed above, with the 5 segments… but written by the artist. In order to post a track you must provide the same relevant information about your own track. What effect you were going for, what sounds you used and how you made them, how you arranged or structured it, so on and so forth.
One thing that really gets to me about people posting their music, is their lack of information. They have no problem putting hours upon hours into writing, performing, editing, etc, but cant take 10minutes to explain where it came from and how it came to be. I personally would listen to a lot more music if the artist explained themselves a bit better. When i see random post of “heres a new track i did (link)” im much less likely to check it out. When i see “heres a new track i did using this and this and this in this way and i was going for this and that and this was cool but this could be better…” i am immediately sold on the artist taking some interested in their own growth. It is at this time i will typically contribute feedback more willingly. When people dont explain their artwork to any extent, i almost always immediately think “well this was probably thrown together with a bunch of plugins in 10minutes and it probably sucks”.
Perhaps a hybrid thread where both sides are visible. To post in the thread you must explain your work to an extent, as well as critic a peers post with the same agendas. This way you can see what a person values about their own art, as well as how they see others work.
I’ve edited the description to allow for reviewing of recent tracks rather than the last one. I’ve also included a suggestion that people give an explanation of their own track - although I am aware of the opposing “art needs no explanation” camp.