Thinking of going back in the box

[Noisebuddy]

Mixing on mixing boards is much faster for me and generally provides better sounding mix quicker.

I love it too, really and when everything hits the outboard it makes me smile …

I have the feeling that my DT is my instrument . It’s my universe . I love it, I learn it, I show it to my friends. I know how to do anything on it. It’s not complex, but it’s incredibly deep.
It’s an object, I have something in my hand.

I don’t show my gear around because whenever i mentioned it the eyes of everybody shows signs of question marks but as you mentioned

my instrument . It’s my universe .

just the AR, headphones plugged in and I’m in my universe within the physical limits of the certain box i use

Computer is abstract, spending money to buy plugins or daw is different feeling.

i did not buy any plugin yet, maybe the FAB ones and some special effects but beyond that i fully agree with you - when i bought my first hardware compressor (Elysia) it was awesome and somehow i have a direct access to its parameters - at last i learned more about compression as within the DAW-universe

here is the thing from an experience I’ve made with a harddrive that crashed badly years ago … nearly 200 GB of data, pictures (some of them have been very important to me because of sweet memories), music, documents from university, an ongoing video-diary from a certain time in my life, in short a shitload of digital goods got lost and you know what, i just missed it for about 15 minutes - it didn’t bother me at all … now ask me to sell my OT or my Blofeld, both pieces of gear i did’t use for ages - i can’t!!!

Anyway OB opened a new universe to me, but i don’t want to make step-patterns in the DAW just patterns for pattern-change on the AR,A4, DT and the automation-thing

[DimensionsTomorrow]

A friend of mine forwarded me this today. Made me think of this thread. Lol.

[Bwax]

/rant

how much of this otb vs itb choices is about views/listens? we all just want to matter, to be heard, to be understood. especially during these times, we just want to connect to other humans. some would say that is what music is all about, expressing things in a non-verbal manner, to show what is in our soul to those around us. just pure expression, and maybe somebody out there appreciates it.

i find whenever i look at people’s soundclouds, even if it’s a fantastic song or album it has minimal listens. it even makes me a bit dumbfounded and angry - like why don’t more people appreciate the obvious blood sweat and tears that somebody put into this work? and the next minute i’ll click on a youtube all-hardware jam that is just so lame and derivative and generic… god bless them for trying and having fun, sure, but still… and they have 5000 views. it’s incredible. i don’t get it. i admit. i’m old. maybe i don’t understand.

but to me it seems people enjoy and spend more time/views/clicks on people f’ing about with hardware than they do with incredible audio-only soundcloud or bandcamp releases. and who knows, maybe they made it with a room full of hardware. but it seems the youtube jams rack up 20x more views/listens than audio only releases. it puzzles me, because i always thought the end result, the song, was the the thing to chase, not a desk full of boxes.

/rant

sorry. maybe too much wine and bad cornavirus news. just venting. carry on.

[darenager]

i find whenever i look at people’s soundclouds, even if it’s a fantastic song or album it has minimal listens

and the next minute i’ll click on a youtube all-hardware jam that is just so lame and derivative and generic… god bless them for trying and having fun, sure, but still… and they have 5000 views. it’s incredible. i don’t get it

Simple, soundcloud is a platform mostly only used by creators to share their work, the general public are pretty much oblivious to its existence. Youtube is a very popular platform that most people regularly use.

[Joe_b]

There are 2 reasons why I do the hardware thing.
The first has nothing to do with music, it’s just the fetishism aspect of an hobby or even some professions. We like buying STUFF, having it, curating our collection, making value judgements and of course talking about it as much as we actually use it. Your gear signals something about you to some reference group f people. It is true with Ski, photography, cars, ballet, model boats, whatever.

The second is music related, and more specifically the process/workflow of making it. There was an Alessandro Cortini video posted here a while back where he said something along the lines of: some people have something in their head and look for the device to produce that, but I have nothing in my head until I sit in front of a device and start playing with it.
Not aperfect quote, but I full have this sentiment.

Of course this is super subjective, but I to, am no Mozart. I don’t have symphonies in my that I just need to write down. I need to play with an object and the physical act of working on a computer just means I probably won’t do anything ever.

[mattleaf]

I agree with the 2nd post, it doesn’t matter, make music. these thoughts are pragmatic, better to focus on musical ideas. sure, maybe a laptop vs hardware is a musical idea, but it isn’t really. once u shift your focus away from logistics and onto musical concerns, recordings will flow no matter what the platform. just make sure u press record lol

[rex_mundii]

I’ve always liked the hands on process of interacting with a small selection of hardware - but then again I’m coming from a preDAW background so there could be a strong element of nostalgia in there too. With that being said, trying to go back to the limitations of a hardware box for full productions is maddening compared to what can easily be achieved with a DAW. All those wires and power supplies don’t exactly help either.

As for mixing out of the box, having full access to high quality (i.e expensive) rack fx & mixing consoles back in college definitely made a huge difference. But did it really? Sure, there’s something to be said for hardware in this context; but looking at it objectively, those studios were also professionally treated in a way that I can’t even come close to in my own environment. Trying to recreate that is simply not cost effective compared to what can already be achieved with a handful of select plugins.

Tried the midi controller/surface controller route but could never seem to gel with that sort of thing. I’m actually a wee bit jealous of those extremely productive people who are more than happy with a bunch of softsynths and a well configured controller - although I have no plans to sell my hardware and take that route.

I guess what I’m trying to say is, each to their own. Each option has it’s good and bad and it comes down to what works best on a personal level. I like messing about with hardware but I’m also a minimalist so I do best with a single workhorse synth hooked up to my computer with its nice big screen. Plus I’m also getting pretty tired of throwing $$ at this and trying to feng shui my room.

But if people prefer the idea of going completely itb then I’d say go for it - there’s plenty to like about such an idea. Same goes for the DAWless crowd. This isn’t gearslutz!

[Stupid_zen]

In any form of art I’ve always came from the place of responding to things as I go instead of having an idea in my head. For me this is best achieved in Ableton Live. It really probably all has to do with familiarity/fluency with/of any given method of making music. I’ve been using live since I was 17 and now I’m 30 so go figure.

I actually tend to sell hardware within a year, partly due to financial fluctuations, partly due to frustration, and partly due to the idea that I can do the same thing essentially for free ITB.

As far as the larger conversation goes I do think any approach is valid, and as I stated earlier, I think a good workflow comes from proficiency and focus of a “language” or interface or whatever.

[rex_mundii]

Something else to think about is while there are certainly benefits to downsizing (especially from our hyperconsumerist lifestyles and being owned by our possessions), is it possible that the urge to make drastic changes comes from somewhere else?

Using myself as an example, as I was approaching 40 I wanted to get rid of everything in my life and have nothing but a laptop, a bag of clothes and a motorcycle. But why was that? A bit of self-reflection would suggest that I was feeling pretty trapped and unhappy in my circumstances at the time and wanted to knock it all down and start again from scratch.

Given that we tend to have more control over the music thing than anything else, it would make sense to try and effect changes to this part of our life in the hope that things might improve overall.

Not saying this is where the OP is coming from, just an interesting thought some people might find relevant.

[MK7]

It‘s all about workflows and preferences.

Map a controller, lock the screen and you have a customized hardware. You can even create your own sequencers, so you can define everything ITB.

However mappings can get tedious or impossible but you also get a lot that‘s impossible on current hardware (whether you need that is a different question).

With the Elektrons you get some cleverly mapped controllers for some special VSTs in locked & boxed laptops.

A mouse/touchpad can also be an awesome controller.

[IVAN_B]

Used to work with a producer friend who is perfectly happy with soft synths, mouse/keyboard and headphones. Back when we worked together I would spend half an hour dialing in the outboard to record some bass, he would use the time to noodle with some sample in Ableton.

For me playing instruments physically is an important aspect of making music because that’s how I started out. For him it’s irrelevant. He started out clicking tracks together in a DAW without much music knowledge or being able to play any instrument.

Different jumping off point, different workflow. I learned a great deal from him.

[Mistercharlie]

the main problem with my all hardware no DAW setup is putting arrangements together and mixing, for composition and jamming I vastly prefer hardware though

Same. Arranging in hardware is like trying to edit text on an iPhone.

I’ve gotten to a happy balance. Hardware for coming up with ideas, and improvising. Ableton for arranging, but also for adding extras — spoken word parts, maybe tracking in a guitar part. Or pulling in a chopped part from Egoist on iPad.

With Overbridge this all works really really well.

One thing I do prefer Ableton for is chopping samples in Simpler. There’s no equivalent on the Digitakt.

[Riuozami]

… and an A4 mk2 too

[Unifono]

Yes, have seen that picture. A minibrute 2s as well, but I guess that counts as part of the eurorack setup

[Altro]

Gear can weigh heavily on some, I get this feeling, especially when I’m not utilising things enough or haven’t invested the time I should have in it.

I thought at one point of selling stuff to get the latest MacBook but to me it felt like the easy option rather than dedicate my time to achieve what I set out to achieve and not get deterred when I hit a road block.

I get the premise of the second post, its just other peoples opinions but it seems like the OP is trying to understand why they are feeling like this.

At the end of it all, you can sell and buy again if you decide to but I’d second thinking about why you are feeling this way and if there is some kind of road block you have it thats deterred you…and if it can be overcome.

[rex_mundii]

Yah it can all definitely weigh you down - first time I sold everything except a single keyboard I’d never felt so free. Plus I finally had the $$ to pay for the dentist! Which is much more useful than a room full of unnecessary gear…

Definitely don’t wanna apply the same way of thinking to everyone. I guess everybody’s different- some people thrive on change, some people might truly be happy when they find the “perfect” setup, while others get stuck on the roundabout for completely unrelated reasons. Who knows?

[macinski]

I don’t think there is something like ‘perfect’ setup for anybody.
I sometimes find myself in very frustrating state when i jump between setups and overthink things like should i have my mixer as front or back of my daw, maybe skip the mixer all together or do it like that because producer X does it etc.

It’s not about the gear/itb/otb but about looking for this ‘perfect’ workflow which is just crazy and extremely unproductive.

Whenever i get hooked on something (melody, sound, beat, anything) that can carry me to finished tune i always get out from this state and start working with clear idea in my mind.
That’s the state i want to be in instead of endless fucking around.

[Kuro]

15 years ago, I began making noise with an incomplete cracked copy of reason 2.0 that my dad got me (after HE researched online how I could make music on a computer… awesome dad) and a super low spec computer. Later on, I was also gifted a midi keyboard / audio interface all in one. That was my “home studio” for the years to come and I was productive as hell. Hardware seemed so out of reach that it wasn’t even a question for me. I had all I needed and I was hammering (shitty) tracks after tracks.

Later on, when I began my graphic design studies then my first job as a designer, making music on a computer started to become less attractive as I was already on a screen non stop.

Then I saw the first pictures of the Volcas, which promised a new world of creativity on the cheap and I told myself “Damn, they could be real nice sketchpads to give me inspiration again!”. I got the Sample and the Bass… and then, I noticed that I didn’t know shit about hardware and “real” synthesis (EG? Wtf is that?) and began watching youtube videos about these magnificent boxes for hours, noticing that the peeps doing the coolest jams had much more stuff than me: pedals, mixers etc.

Instead of doing it punk style and using my two volcas to the limit, I began to slip in the GAS trap, buying new boxes before fully learning the previous one.

Fast forward some years: I’m part of the “dawless” crowd and I’ve a boatload of boxes that I know how to use but that I’ve never really made MINE. Do I make music? Yes, but much more slowly than I used to, and where I previously thought non stop about my next tracks and the crazy ideas I could try, I find myself thinking much more about THE NEW BOX I NEED now. As such, I’m constantly jumping between my boxes, trying to justify having all this stuff, thinking about selling this and this to buy that instead.

To think that I was just using reason 2.0 and a plastic keyboard in the beginning… I sometimes wonder where I began drifting, and the temptation of selling all this to return ITB with just a nice controller is great.

[Unifono]

It began with videos of the volcas for me too, but I never bought them, cause an octatrack dataline video autoloaded after the volca one (the one with the volcas, haha… what it does)
So I skipped the low price market and jumped straight into elektron. Took some time though cause I had no money and focused on the OT purchase for almost a year

[Kernad]

For me it really depends. I started with a Volca FM, and few months later I downloaded FL11, and my ex borrowed me a MIDI Keyboard of her father, for me at first glance a DAW was very overwhelming but I had a lot of fun with it and discovering things, so later I sold my volca FM and bought a Monologue, and in that moment i really started to enjoy synths, because the volca was very difficult and I barely could know what it was happening when i tried make some patches.

So I was some time making mostly hip-hop and experiments with the DAW (Some months later I moved on to Ableton) and the monologue and I was very happy with my set up, but i felt some lack of creativity and live improvisation, so I got a Maschine Jam but I didn’t enjoy the workflow and I sold it.

Right now I have a nice set up OTB, mainly for produce Tekno, but i really appreciate the possibilities that a computer give me. For me the computer it’s nice and I really like to use it for make hip-hop for example, it’s really fast and i get the workflow, but for another genres it’s annoying, all depends your approach and what you want

For example all Tekno I made, it’s only for enjoy myself, and play it at raves, and I can assure that for me go to my bed and turn on the machines it’s something like a medicine that i really need, and put my very happy.

So you can see the music as differents paths, you only have to choose what you enjoy, more.

I really enjoy too make some sketchs on the DT and later with OB, produce music whith the possibilities that a computer give me, and I can assure if i could hook up all my set up in a easy way to the computer I would make more music there, but right now due a few things i don’t have the possibilitie.

So for me music it’s the biggest part of my life, for one hand i have my hardware, I can play with it and see it like a toy, i don’t really care if i didn’t make a track in a long time because for me it’s having fun and that involve a lot of different things, make patches, study how people made some patches that i downloaded, make experiments and later use that knowledge to finally make a track, involves a lot of differents ways to have fun.
And on another hand I have a computer and I can record/compose songs there when I feel fine with it, and use it for mixing, and finalize tracks.

For me, music it isn’t about being productive because it is not my work, it’s have fun. I could get rid of all my hardware an except the DT (I really enjoy make there all my drums), and make all my music ITB and still be productive but I would be missing the other half of what music it’s for me.

Edit: Sorry for my bad english, I keep learning it