The Virus TI2 desktop made me sell all my synths

SoundReverend · December 18, 2021, 10:56am

That is interesting… I wonder how that could possibly work. Will try again on my Mac without any Access software installed…

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 10:58am

It’s a stretch when akai says “class compliant interfaces work”, because only 44.1 works. Isn’t the virus 48?

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 11:07am

I’ve seen this and looked at it a while ago, but I thought I read somewhere that you lose the usb audio if you use that midi driver. As above, and even on that GitHub page says what I’ve always been told. Audio is compliant, midi is not. The patch base guy even says his virus editor for iOS won’t work over usb.

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 11:11am

Well, I’m also kinda realizing just now, even if both audio and midi did work, it still requires an ac adapter…so…probably not my ideal solution. Makes sense tho w/ the amt of processing in the TIs

SoundReverend · December 18, 2021, 11:28am

Well I just tried it on a MacBook with Monterey. It recognises Audio 2/6 and I can even play my Mac through the Virus which is cool. But it does not see MIDI at all Which is a PITA. And I guess there is no way to tell the virus to route Audio to the Mac as nothing comes into Logic if I play it. I remember you need to configure it via the TI plugin which no longer works

Would be really interesting to see if the MPC sees the MIDI interface. I wonder how that could work.

thetechnobear · December 18, 2021, 11:35am

USB Midi Class compliance

the Virus TI is ‘kind of’ USB midi class compliant … let me explain

so out of the box, it is not in class compliant mode… you need to send it some ‘magic bytes’. (*)
this then switches it to usb class compliant mode.

so… this is why you do not see it on Windows and Mac.
though you can make it appear by sending these bytes.

however, the Linux kernel had these bytes hacked into it MANY years ago, so many linux based setups will indeed see the Virus as a midi device.

indeed, years back, I added the same support to the Axoloti DSP board

(*) unfortunately, these have to be sent as a raw usb message… so its not something you can send via midi or similar.

USB Audio class compliance…

I was told by Access that the TI is audio class compliant in a similar way to the midi class compliance
but Ive never got this working, or seen anyone else get it working - so Ive doubts about this…
Im sure it probably at some level this is probably a true fact, but its not that simple… and we are missing some vital details.

unfortunately, a lot of these details are not forthcoming because Access are used 3rd party software/license in this area … so really its not theirs to ‘give away’, hence why unfortunately we will never see it open sourced

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 11:32am

You have a keyboard or desktop? Doesn’t local control get turned off in usb mode, thus no sound?

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 11:37am

Are they sysex commands? Or something completely different?
Can you point me in the direction of any documentation about that?

Edit to your edit: yeah, I’m not expecting to see anything from virus to open it up because of that. I knew there’s a licensing issue. That and he’s pretty much over the virus. I’m sure he cant wait for it to sell out and just be done with it.

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 11:38am

also, do you have an iPhone or iPad? Do those same audio outputs show up there?

thetechnobear · December 18, 2021, 11:47am

no, as I said, this is raw usb.
as I said, the TI starts up as a ‘vendor specific’ USB Device, so you have to talk to it as such, once you send these bytes… then it switches to be a usb midi device.

I can do better, I can point you to the axoloti code I wrote to do this

github.com

axoloti/axoloti/blob/46f6e4b383ce182da9dcca25b9d4b544fe20f990/firmware/usbh_vendor.c#L110


//                	USBH_UsrLog("USB Host (Virus) Output interval : %i", MIDI_Handle->write_poll);
//                    if(MIDI_Handle->write_poll<MIDI_MIN_WRITE_POLL) MIDI_Handle->write_poll = MIDI_MIN_WRITE_POLL;
                    MIDI_Handle->output_valid = true;
                }
                
            } // each endpoint, or until ive found both input and output endpoint
            if (isValidOutput(MIDI_Handle)) {
                USBH_UsrLog("USB Host (Virus) Output connected to %x : %x", interface, MIDI_Handle->OutEp );
                MIDI_Handle->OutPipe = USBH_AllocPipe(phost, MIDI_Handle->OutEp);
                USBH_OpenPipe  (phost,
                                MIDI_Handle->OutPipe,
                                MIDI_Handle->OutEp,
                                phost->device.address,
                                phost->device.speed,
                                USB_EP_TYPE_BULK,
                                MIDI_Handle->OutEpSize);
                USBH_LL_SetToggle  (phost, MIDI_Handle->OutPipe,0);

basically, its this :

   static uint8_t seq[] = { 0x4e, 0x73, 0x52, 0x01 }; 
   USBH_BulkSendData(phost, seq, sizeof(seq), MIDI_Handle->OutPipe,false);

SoundReverend · December 18, 2021, 11:48am

I have the keyboard but (at least here) if the MIDI is not recognized it will not switch to local off. So I guess the story is: a) It is not really class compliant except when you do what @thetechnobear mentioned which is good to know and b) the MPC seems to have that linux driver installed which is a really nice feature. And this was confirmed in another thread:

thetechnobear · December 18, 2021, 12:03pm

oh, just noticed… I added a comment (in above file) which points to the linux kernel change that implemented this … so you can see where I got this info from

LKML: Sebastien Alaiwan: [PATCH][ALSA] usbmidi support for Access Music synths.

this is also probably where I heard about usb audio being supposed to work

but as mentioned, when I tried this … I found there were some issue, so kind of classified it as ‘not-working’

to be ‘complete’ , I was also told by Access (support) that if you did not install their (virus) driver, then the TI would appear as an audio device… but Ive never got that to work either.
(this is the bit I think support perhaps had a bit of ‘misinformation’ on)

all that said, I admit, really I didn’t care too much about audio over usb, as I preferred using my main audio interface… so whilst Ive tried a few times over the years, Ive never given it a huge amount of effort… Id say the quote above from Sebastien means some have had it working at some point of time… just there’s no really information about it.

indeed, it can’t really be called ‘class compliant’ since compliance requires that it just plugs in and works without ‘extra software’.
(Its a real shame that didn’t just add this to a virus menu setting, then it would be class compliant.)

yeah, MPC is based on linux kernel, so thats why it works.
the macOS project you pointed to , is basically just sending these bytes, and the wrapping this new midi stream… so is also based on this class compliance.

the assumption is that the Access Virus VST is doing the same too… basically it just switches the Virus to class compliant modes, and then accesses the audio/midi streams.
(Id assume someone just watched the USB traffic of the VST, and this is how these magic bytes were ‘discovered’)

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 11:58am

I’m really just looking at things to slim my live rig down. So an instrument that doubles would be helpful. I’d prefer a drum machine to do this as most of my hardware synths have moved over to software. My MDs (and everyone else’s) are in that “too risky to be carting with you to every gig” territory (even if it had usb audio), and I doesn’t care for any of the newer elektron stuff so the AR is right the fuck out. So I’ve been looking at synths like the polar. Again, never owned a virus, but always intrigued by them, so here I am seeing the feasibility of it and trying to get clarification
Thanks for your links

Kosmology · December 18, 2021, 12:02pm

Lol, well I have no idea, all I know is that MIDI works flawlessly with the MPC ONE via USB.

thetechnobear · December 18, 2021, 12:10pm

yeah, its completely reliable - Ive used the virus usb midi for years.

as you surmised, one port is to the synth engine of the virus… the other is to the DIN ports.
which is also kind handy, means you can use it as a usb->midi interface for other gear.

Virus is such a great synth

@Kosmology does the Virus appear as an audio interface to the MPC?
now that it supports external audio interfaces…
as above the kernel theoretically supports it, but Ive never got it to work with any linux distro Ive tried… but perhaps with some effort it could work.

EDIT: ok, just seen you said it wasn’t working
(sorry, catching up on posts in this topic)

micabeza · December 18, 2021, 12:07pm

I wouldn’t be surprised if the virus audio is showing up as 48k on your mac, thus the MPC not seeing it.

Kosmology · December 18, 2021, 1:06pm

I hadn’t looked tbh, Ive just checked and it does show up in the list but when selecting it locks for a few seconds and then switches back to internal saying there’s an error.

Prints · January 3, 2022, 6:18pm

I know this thread is about the Virus being so good that it made me sell my other synths, but I’m really enjoying using it with other synths right now. For example, I’m using my TI2 Darkstar as a midi keyboard for my new Waldorf Pulse II and it is so nice being able to process the Pulse with all of the Virus’s FX. The reverb, bit crushers, EQ, and chorus sound so good with the Pulse; it’s a match made in heaven, and everything is so tidy with only a couple cables between the two devices.

closencounters · February 19, 2022, 9:49pm

Anyone here using mystery islands editor with m1 macs? Do they still work correctly?

The old editor was a pain to work with and I haven’t tried using it since I got an M1

Any feedback? And if it works, what do I actually need to connect the virus ti to my m1? Apparently the direct usb connection won’t work?

Sorry, so many noob questions…

Claid · February 19, 2022, 10:17pm

I need to try the Mystery Islands editor on my Virus B on M1, only just made the switch and haven’t installed it yet.

I am thinking of upgrading my B to a C at the very least. I love the look of the layout of the C, the third oscillator and reverb/delay being on the front panel is pretty awesome.