The Rytm Input : High headroom?

GRIDSPACE · 2021-12-27T15:00:20.771Z

Hi there,

is someone can explain why the external input on the RYTM mk2 (and mk1) is so low? It makes its sampling purpose useless.

Why the calibration isn’t leveled as the DIGITAKT, with volume and panning control basics?

Being constrained to double mono signal to L+R to listen to the stream/preview on both speakers is also painful.

Thanks in advance!!

kin_deli · 2021-12-27T15:09:33.618Z

If you get a chance, it would be really helpful to the Rytm user community if you email this feature request (DIGITAKT mixer capabilities for Rytm) to feature-request@elektron.se . The external input is set very low, with high headroom, which is very nice for sending it loud sources. But thosemixer options would make it far more usable with any input source (without requiring external gain/mixer/preamp). Which, let’s be real, for the RYTM money, is only fair when the feature is included on far cheaper Digitakt.

avantronica · 2021-12-27T17:38:04.960Z

kin_deli:

it would be really helpful to the Rytm user community if you email this feature request (DIGITAKT mixer capabilities for Rytm) to feature-request@elektron.se

It’s just not possible, as explained in the thread (and in others) above - those inputs from the Mk1 and Mk2 are fully analog and direct to the outputs

Those inputs aren’t set low - the signals being supplied to them are merely low with respect to their deliberately configured headroom

These inputs are useful with e.g. an A4, but of course, a volca may have significantly less oomph - there’s nothing to do except boost those external signals or at a push drop the internal tracks down to be closer

These are just the way they are - at least the Mk2 has additional options for sampling

obscurerobot · 2021-12-27T18:38:01.395Z

Way upthread, someone mentioned the Mackie 402VLZ4. I just bought one to manage outputs (OT out + Lyra, all sent to 2 track, headphones and speakers). If I had an AR, or was having trouble getting enough gain into the OT I would immediately buy more 402VLZ4s. Great little utility mixer!

kin_deli · 2021-12-27T19:28:03.975Z

Okay please be gentle , I’m going to ask a technical question (in the correct thread) as someone who doesn’t totally understand the difference between sampling vs. dsp hardware requirements- if you sample through those inputs, the signal is being digitized, so can’t that digitization be done in real time and boosted with digital gain or something? Can’t more digital gain be added to the samples? I know it’s not going direct to outputs when it’s being sampled, right? Would what I’m asking just require tons of CPU power that the Rytm doesn’t have? in addition to adding digital perversions…

maxekman · 2021-12-27T19:59:05.278Z

The Rytm will (according to the manual) normalize samples, which will do what you say. You will however loose some bit depth (the amount of discrete levels per sample) in this process, resulting in a slight reduction in fidelity. And as you say you will not be able to monitor at the normalized level, as it’s a post process after sampling. In addition the signal to noise ratio will be lower if you are not utilizing the full input headroom.

avantronica · 2021-12-27T21:56:47.596Z

kin_deli:

you sample through those inputs

The question pertained to “external inputs” and both the mk1 and MK2. The mk1 only has analog external inputs. The Mk2 audio inputs are the only ones that sample.

Whether the intention was to discuss one or the other was a little unclear, however on re-reading i now don’t think the reference to external inputs was on purpose, it would’ve been best to explicitly reference ‘audio’ inputs, but then again the reference to Mk1 makes this far from clear

In terms of how sampling the audio inputs compares to DT I have no idea, so nothing to compare with … that is obviously not analog through, so maybe this is the wrong thread after all

Obviously wrt the Rytm its audio ins are passing into tracks which are Mono when played back through the analog filter

Presumably the DT tracks are also mono ‘filtered’ and the sampling inputs are audible in stereo by bypassing this.

Will move this when it’s confirmed by gridspace the reference to external inputs and Mk1 was not intentional as it now appears, apologies for the confusion, read the post too quickly

GRIDSPACE · 2021-12-27T22:58:13.155Z

avantronica:

those inputs from the Mk1 and Mk2 are fully analog and direct to the outputs

My bad, they are external input AND Audio IN. The second one must be used for sampling purposes. Thank you very much for highlighting.

avantronica · 2021-12-28T00:27:46.724Z

GRIDSPACE:

to keep the OT the king for sampling.

well, in a way, it arguably is - but the metric you’re using is stereo sampling and stereo input handling - the AR Mk1 has no sampling inputs and the Mk2 has separate sampling (Audio) inputs alongside the External inputs

If the input handling of those AD inputs are different to the DT then who knows if there may be convergence

Convergence works both ways - some devices that are cheaper have superior features - the feature set isn’t defined by price, nor limited - this makes no sense - if you pull(spoil) features from a device, the prospective purchaser could easily buy something from a different maker, it’s a convenient fall-guy excuse, but it doesn’t make sense here - the AR uses Mono samples and due to the signal path it will be playing these at a set position in the signal chain on each track - whether it’s possible to present those AD (Audio) inputs in Stereo the other side of the filters will be for Elektron designers to decide, not their accountants

Think about teh voice architecture when making these critiques/suggestions

Screenshot 2021-12-28 00.17.57963×917 95.1 KB

The Audio Input DACS ordinarily feed pre analog overdrive mono track - but possibly could be presented at the stereo ‘return’ DACs marked (?) on diagram

Note External Inputs are fully analog through to the outputs, they join pre-comp but post distortion at the Bias circuit iirc

GRIDSPACE · 2021-12-28T00:47:20.640Z

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain in details

Brockstar · 2022-07-13T16:07:06.634Z

So I just got my analog rytm mk1 in last night and I hooked my octatrack mk1 up too it and the input on rytm is just way too low. I’ve tried several different types of cables running from octratrack to input on rytm. Right now I have 2 mono cables out from octatrack to a stereo end into rytm. I’ve basically had to turn up all levels to 127 on each track and +63 on each track for the volume under the amp parameter for each track just to get it to sit right in the mix…

Before I got rytm, i had the octatrack going into analog four and worked fine without having to boost a ton of volume.

Is this normal? or maybe something wrong with my rytm input?

avantronica · 2022-07-13T16:11:13.481Z

Brockstar:

Is this normal?

Yes and there are quite a few topics on this, especially from early users

Octagonist · 2022-07-13T16:11:20.000Z

Brockstar:

Is this normal? or maybe something wrong with my rytm input?

Everyone says this about the Rytm input. I’ve got the mkii, and it’s quieter (or more headroom-y) than I’d like. I just turn up the sources. If possible, rather than turn up VOL on the [AMP] page, turn up the A+B or C+D output level on the [MIX] page.

Or turn your Rytm channels’ VOL down a bit. It’s a bit of a balancing act, especially if you’re using the Rytm’s compressor.

Brockstar · 2022-07-13T16:21:03.851Z

Octagonist:

If possible, rather than turn up VOL on the [AMP] page, turn up the A+B or C+D output level on the [MIX] page.

There’s no such parameters for octatrack for outputs. The A+B and C+D under mixer is for inputs.

Ok so I guess I’ll just have to live with boosting everything in octatrack lol. Weird they designed the rytm with low input like this.

Octagonist · 2022-07-13T16:28:45.900Z

Curious. My mkii has them.

image4032×3024 3.53 MB

Octagonist · 2022-07-13T16:29:34.346Z

Sorry… yeah, they’re MAIN and CUE, not A+B and C+D.

Brockstar · 2022-07-13T16:34:52.243Z

Yeah I bumped up the main by +20 as well lol. I think I have the levels balanced now with all the extra boosting going on, but just weird that rytm was designed with such low input compared to all their other boxes.

Octagonist · 2022-07-13T16:56:01.268Z

I’ve heard it said that modular puts out hot signals, so maybe Rytm was designed with that in mind. I don’t have any modular.

That photo of my screen is from the project where I’m passing CUE out to the Rytm to be compressed with the drums. You can see I’ve got it at +58. I say go hot there and leave your [AMP] page settings as they were. This way, the project is more transferrable if you want to add a mixer to your set-up.

Anigbrowl · 2025-03-07T02:57:26.274Z

Anig Browl:

At least this way it’s something people can plan for.

[10 years later]

obtain Analog Rytm mk1
Dark Trinity achieved at last
power flows through my cables
muahahaha.jpg
plug A4 into AR
Damn why is it so quiet
head to elektronauts dot com
MFW

With the benefit of hindsight I don’t think the low input is so bad for studio work, where you want to give individual sounds some analog compression or use Overbridge. For live work I guess it’s better to run the AR into the A4 or the OT, depending how much gear you want to bring to the gig.

jm2c · 2025-03-07T08:24:43.141Z

A bit late to the party, but if I take a peep at the specs of ER-1 and Rytm (assuming MKI here?), the problem becomes obvious:

Electribe ER-1 outputs at -10dBu
Rytm MKI input expects a level of up to +15dBu

Therefore, you have a whopping 25dBu (!) mismatch with this pairing… No wonder you need a mixer LOL

People really need to learn to “spec shop”… this problem would have been obvious just from the manuals. There is no way to pair the two nicely without some gain booster between them. Solutions for this sort of problems do exist however, you’ve got boost pedals, line level shifters etc… Mixer is only one way to tackle this

just my 2 cents (jm2c)