The Rytm Input : High headroom?

Hooger · 2021-07-21T12:48:36.671Z

Yeah, sorry @avantronica . I did a google search, not a forum search.

I will punish myself by putting on a Level 42-record.

blakewalt · 2021-07-21T12:54:34.023Z

I forgot how low the AR inputs were.
Plugged my Rev2 into them and couldn’t hear a thing so plugged the rev2 into the A4 and the A4 into the AR and it was OK.
I’ve used the inputs as send/returns for my BAM or H9, it works wonder that way. perhaps modular level would work out of the box… didn’t think of it (used my DN for that)

Octagonist · 2021-07-21T13:36:59.486Z

Smurphd:

I really wonder why bother adding such a useless input

I use it a lot. It’s very helpful. Level control would be a convenient extra control, but the inputs are plenty usable without.

SierraOskar · 2021-07-21T13:38:00.868Z

For what it’s worth, with modular level I personally had to do a lot of level management on AR MK2 tracks, alongside tweaking the compressor to get the levels to sit well overall. I’m about to try my Digitone with it on the inputs, so will be interested to see how that works …

subduct · 2021-07-21T17:25:13.628Z

I thought one of these might fix the level problem, plug external source (for me it will be Avalon & RAT) into the mic/line in and you have 65dB of gain, ought to be plenty?
Plus, then you can route other stuff into the Rytm and it’s compressor too?

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Hooger · 2021-07-22T16:05:48.873Z

I solved the low volume by just using a mixer instead of the direct ext in. Not ideal in the cramped space I call my studio, on the other hand it gives me the added bonus of multiple ins and (better control of) send fx.

qlamerand · 2021-07-22T16:17:56.956Z

Yes a mixer is way easier.
On the other hand, I just tried to use to the Rytm inputs with modular levels and it worked really well. I tried the eurorack outs of a Matriarch and then a Digitone levelled up with a Befaco InAmp (input module).
I tried as well to apply an Audiothingie Doctor A (a delay/reverb that can handle +19dBu signals) on one of the separate Rytm outputs (removed from the mix) and insert it back into the Rytm, perfect!

subduct · 2021-07-22T18:15:10.410Z

qlamerand:

I just tried to use to the Rytm inputs with modular levels and it worked really well

Is that with Rytm Mk1? Did you have to change levels on your Rytm sounds at all?

qlamerand · 2021-07-23T07:39:40.690Z

mk2 but no changes at all on the levels. I used both preset projects on Digitone (Keys) and Rytm to see if the levels matched. The resulted music was horrendous though

woz · 2021-11-13T11:11:52.426Z

Level control external in MKII Analog Rytm

I suspect that the low ext input perception is due to the master distortion sounding so good and boosting the rytm machines only. Most use it I’ll bet. So avoiding distortion (using overdrive + amp level instead) solved the problem in my case. The distortion seems like more of a live oriented feature, if the rytm it’s self sounds relatively weak.

GRIDSPACE · 2021-12-27T15:00:20.771Z

Hi there,

is someone can explain why the external input on the RYTM mk2 (and mk1) is so low? It makes its sampling purpose useless.

Why the calibration isn’t leveled as the DIGITAKT, with volume and panning control basics?

Being constrained to double mono signal to L+R to listen to the stream/preview on both speakers is also painful.

Thanks in advance!!

kin_deli · 2021-12-27T15:09:33.618Z

If you get a chance, it would be really helpful to the Rytm user community if you email this feature request (DIGITAKT mixer capabilities for Rytm) to feature-request@elektron.se . The external input is set very low, with high headroom, which is very nice for sending it loud sources. But thosemixer options would make it far more usable with any input source (without requiring external gain/mixer/preamp). Which, let’s be real, for the RYTM money, is only fair when the feature is included on far cheaper Digitakt.

avantronica · 2021-12-27T17:38:04.960Z

kin_deli:

it would be really helpful to the Rytm user community if you email this feature request (DIGITAKT mixer capabilities for Rytm) to feature-request@elektron.se

It’s just not possible, as explained in the thread (and in others) above - those inputs from the Mk1 and Mk2 are fully analog and direct to the outputs

Those inputs aren’t set low - the signals being supplied to them are merely low with respect to their deliberately configured headroom

These inputs are useful with e.g. an A4, but of course, a volca may have significantly less oomph - there’s nothing to do except boost those external signals or at a push drop the internal tracks down to be closer

These are just the way they are - at least the Mk2 has additional options for sampling

obscurerobot · 2021-12-27T18:38:01.395Z

Way upthread, someone mentioned the Mackie 402VLZ4. I just bought one to manage outputs (OT out + Lyra, all sent to 2 track, headphones and speakers). If I had an AR, or was having trouble getting enough gain into the OT I would immediately buy more 402VLZ4s. Great little utility mixer!

kin_deli · 2021-12-27T19:28:03.975Z

Okay please be gentle , I’m going to ask a technical question (in the correct thread) as someone who doesn’t totally understand the difference between sampling vs. dsp hardware requirements- if you sample through those inputs, the signal is being digitized, so can’t that digitization be done in real time and boosted with digital gain or something? Can’t more digital gain be added to the samples? I know it’s not going direct to outputs when it’s being sampled, right? Would what I’m asking just require tons of CPU power that the Rytm doesn’t have? in addition to adding digital perversions…

maxekman · 2021-12-27T19:59:05.278Z

The Rytm will (according to the manual) normalize samples, which will do what you say. You will however loose some bit depth (the amount of discrete levels per sample) in this process, resulting in a slight reduction in fidelity. And as you say you will not be able to monitor at the normalized level, as it’s a post process after sampling. In addition the signal to noise ratio will be lower if you are not utilizing the full input headroom.

avantronica · 2021-12-27T21:56:47.596Z

kin_deli:

you sample through those inputs

The question pertained to “external inputs” and both the mk1 and MK2. The mk1 only has analog external inputs. The Mk2 audio inputs are the only ones that sample.

Whether the intention was to discuss one or the other was a little unclear, however on re-reading i now don’t think the reference to external inputs was on purpose, it would’ve been best to explicitly reference ‘audio’ inputs, but then again the reference to Mk1 makes this far from clear

In terms of how sampling the audio inputs compares to DT I have no idea, so nothing to compare with … that is obviously not analog through, so maybe this is the wrong thread after all

Obviously wrt the Rytm its audio ins are passing into tracks which are Mono when played back through the analog filter

Presumably the DT tracks are also mono ‘filtered’ and the sampling inputs are audible in stereo by bypassing this.

Will move this when it’s confirmed by gridspace the reference to external inputs and Mk1 was not intentional as it now appears, apologies for the confusion, read the post too quickly

GRIDSPACE · 2021-12-27T22:58:13.155Z

avantronica:

those inputs from the Mk1 and Mk2 are fully analog and direct to the outputs

My bad, they are external input AND Audio IN. The second one must be used for sampling purposes. Thank you very much for highlighting.

avantronica · 2021-12-28T00:27:46.724Z

GRIDSPACE:

to keep the OT the king for sampling.

well, in a way, it arguably is - but the metric you’re using is stereo sampling and stereo input handling - the AR Mk1 has no sampling inputs and the Mk2 has separate sampling (Audio) inputs alongside the External inputs

If the input handling of those AD inputs are different to the DT then who knows if there may be convergence

Convergence works both ways - some devices that are cheaper have superior features - the feature set isn’t defined by price, nor limited - this makes no sense - if you pull(spoil) features from a device, the prospective purchaser could easily buy something from a different maker, it’s a convenient fall-guy excuse, but it doesn’t make sense here - the AR uses Mono samples and due to the signal path it will be playing these at a set position in the signal chain on each track - whether it’s possible to present those AD (Audio) inputs in Stereo the other side of the filters will be for Elektron designers to decide, not their accountants

Think about teh voice architecture when making these critiques/suggestions

Screenshot 2021-12-28 00.17.57963×917 95.1 KB

The Audio Input DACS ordinarily feed pre analog overdrive mono track - but possibly could be presented at the stereo ‘return’ DACs marked (?) on diagram

Note External Inputs are fully analog through to the outputs, they join pre-comp but post distortion at the Bias circuit iirc

GRIDSPACE · 2021-12-28T00:47:20.640Z

Thank you very much for taking the time to explain in details