The Octatrack can be quite granular-esque [example inside]

Octagonist · 2021-06-02T08:41:02.377Z

They let Metallica in. That’s fairly similar

_dspk · 2021-06-02T09:51:31.183Z

sezare56:

The grains track let you apply an envelope to grains (per step), and the 6 voices record those steps (RLEN=1)

these examples are amazing… but i’m still trying to get my head around what’s going on… i ‘think’ you mean you’re using trigs on every step of the incoming track to create the per step envelope, but i’m not sure what you mean by grain preparation… how does pitch/feedback relate to these envelopes?

is there any chance you would be up for sharing the project file?

Oblique · 2021-06-02T11:11:03.781Z

I am really inspired by this thread and would be grateful for more details as well

sezare56 · 2021-06-02T11:42:19.633Z

_dspk:

you’re using trigs on every step of the incoming track to create the per step envelope

That’s what I meant by grain preparation.
For grains envelope I tried lfo designer but trig counts (microtiming menu) seem ideal for that.

For “voices” I also tried Plays Free tracks, quantized to 1 step. These Flex tracks are playing their recording with microtiming (recording a step of grains track).

Tuning can depend on tempo (103.1 bpm = A), or slices length. I added Comb filters tuned accordingly…

My project file is a bit messy, there is about 16 different patterns with different settings. I discovered some new things with pre-sliced recording, I’ll let you know when I master a bit more what I’m doing !

_dspk · 2021-06-02T12:09:29.695Z

sezare56:

For grains envelope I tried lfo designer but trig counts (microtiming menu) seem ideal for that.

hmm, i’m still a bit confused here… with trig counts the envelope seems to run only after the multiple trigs.

look forward to seeing the project file when you’re ready to share!

sezare56 · 2021-06-02T12:30:30.982Z

_dspk:

with trig counts the envelope seems to run only after the multiple trigs.

With trig counts the envelope is retriggered. With trig counts = 4, 1 step is divided in 4. I let you use a shorter length for voices (LEN=32)

_dspk · 2021-06-02T12:48:18.519Z

i’m not good at using gifs but i would go for the mind blown one here… !!!
have never known about this trigcount’/env relationship!!! thanks so much… i can suddenly do a whole load of granular things without all the clickyness!!!

sezare56 · 2021-06-02T13:29:17.516Z

_dspk:

using gifs but i would go for the mind blown

…
giphy (2)

Amen Break vs trig counts

Oblique · 2021-06-13T11:59:39.672Z

I though a fun exercise might be to use 4 tracks of the OT to make a granular cloud from a pad sample

Layering several granular methods at once to make a cloud of sound

Trig repeat with LFO on start and pan
Timestretch with speed at zero
Delay and dark reverb to increase the grain cloud density, comb filters, pitch shifting to add harmonics

Scenes to tweak the above

Anything else I can cram into 4 tracks?

Working on it tomorrow hopefully

Oblique · 2021-06-13T21:49:36.730Z

Because each track on the OT is monophonic, any attempts at granular texture have an inherent rhythmic “machine gun” quality to them. This can be mitigated as mentioned with attack phase / amp … and trig repeats, however the issue remains. A software granular synth can play multiple overlapping grains to make a cloud. The Octatrack can only sequence a stream of monophonic grains.

ignatius · 2021-06-13T21:55:26.938Z

Oblique:

any attempts at granular texture have an inherent rhythmic “machine gun” quality to them.

depends on the source sound. on drums… yeah perhaps… but on noisy and textural things it can be great for granular type sounds. simply scanning rapidly through longer samples using custom drawn LFOs that are at a high rate … while simultaneously modulating aspects of the LFO can lead to some unique places.

i don’t have an OT anymore but modulating start/end times of loops of textural material is part of the process to get to the granular like feel of what the OT can do.

these tracks feature noisy textural things using this technique. lot’s of background stuff. all the sounds are happening in the OT. just a bunch of samples being mangled.

Oblique · 2021-06-13T22:04:34.428Z

This sounds great. I know you don’t have an OT but it would be great to get some more technical details.

How long are the loops you are modulating the start endpoints?eg <1 or >1 sec?
Do you turn off time stretch mode? How do you avoid the ‘clicking’ artefacts? Any fx eg reverb?

ignatius · 2021-06-13T23:56:28.459Z

Oblique:

This sounds great. I know you don’t have an OT but it would be great to get some more technical details.

thanks. it was quite a while ago. i don’t really remember too many details. i tweaked the LFOs in LFO designer for quite a while to get what i needed. i’m pretty sure the loops were under 15 seconds in length… though could’ve been longer… up to 30 seconds or so. the drums are all one shots.

sezare56 · 2021-06-14T14:07:10.524Z

Oblique:

How long are the loops you are modulating the start endpoints?eg <1 or >1 sec?

Modulating start can be clicky.
I don’t use Retrigs but LEN, with PIPO loop mode.

Filter can reduce clicks strength.

Resampling a “grain track” with envelope can eliminate clicks.

It’s possible to use one shots rec trigs to record and one shots trigs to play constantly (untill you arm one shots again).

Oblique · 2021-06-14T22:27:19.483Z

Is there anyway to automate the re-arming of 1-shot trigs eg once every 4 bars so that the buffer keep ‘live updating’ when new audio is constantly coming in?

sezare56 · 2021-06-14T22:44:26.468Z

Oblique:

Automate the re-arming of 1-shot trigs eg once every 4 bars so that the buffer keep ‘live updating’ when new audio is constantly coming in?

Yes, with a midi track you can mute, sending CC54 (ARM ALL). But if it’s constant, no need for one shots.

One shots are good to grab audio sometimes, but you can also arm constantly holding YES (or FN+YES). Put one shots every 4 bars if you wish.

Plays Free tracks can do the job too. You can set them to HOLD and latch them changing to Grid Recording.

sezare56 · 2021-06-14T22:48:27.028Z

Oblique:

A software granular synth can play multiple overlapping grains to make a cloud. The Octatrack can only sequence a stream of monophonic grains.

You can cheat with delay.

ameeva · 2021-06-16T12:56:18.176Z

this is so nice, I still didn’t try the live looping mode and certainly I’m missing something

Oblique · 2021-06-17T21:17:21.560Z

How on earth do you get an LFO to match LEN? I have no idea how to match them to be the same

sezare56 · 2021-06-17T21:58:38.238Z

Oblique:

LFO to match LEN

I don’t remember exact settings but basically if the sample is 1 bar, it can correspond to an lfo speed. Multiply this lfo while dividing LEN.

LEN 128 LFO MULTIPLY = 1
LEN 64 LFO MULTIPLY = 2
LEN 32 LFO MULTIPLY = 4
Etc…

An lfo designer TRI can be 8 times faster.