The naughty ordering and not keeping

The Lounge General Discussion
#22

I’ve noticed in the thread words like “abuse” and “exploit”.

Generous return policies are carefully considered by retailers to be competitive in the marketplace and appeal to customers. I don’t think there is “abuse” or “exploitation” happening in cases of indecision. Faulty product and fraudulent claims are something else.

I don’t understand why people have such a problem with this practice if this is the new de rigeur landscape of retail sales in the online age. Retailers no longer have to pay for expensive store space in well-travelled parts of town, they don’t have to worry about the classic challenge of finding knowledgeable floor staff who isn’t anti-social…the landscape has shifted. This is the way it is.

If we only purchased instruments from a brick-n-mortar retailer, we’d have chances to try stuff out and buy one thing. Well that’s not how it works now.

I think there’s a different set of frustrations that are hiding under this topic. I don’t think this is about an “injustice” to retailers…I think it’s just a reality of the internet age…and it’s wasteful and a bit sad…not just for the supply chain, but I think it’s making customers too picky.

I think that when the sales and marketing channel perfects the influencer/reviewer model even better, you will get very specialized reviewers who cover ALL the things that YOU the customer really cares about including “feel” and “playability” (I have never and will never order a MIDI keyboard controller online without having played it first). The reviewer whose reviews result in the most clickthroughs to sales which end up CONFIRMED and UNRETURNED will win. We need to incentivize that.

I also think there’s an underlying frustration here with the tsunami of products in the marketplace…specifically products which are meant to encourage creative play, yet keep responding to market demands for instant gratification.

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#23

Actually, I’d happily start returning things if the firmware is blatantly broken, missing features and dodgy timing, maybe then companies will sort their sh&t out before shipping .

A few bugs, maybe, but some from recent memory showed a lack of care.

Or I don’t buy things on release which is probably another good policy.

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#24

I gotta agree here. This is absolutely an OK reason to return something.

#25

I’m not talking about faulty or items that don’t meet the promised functionality.
I’t absolutely understandable for me if it’s a bug ridden chunk of god damn if someone returns that.

I’m investigating in front of purchasing. I watch every video I can find, I download the manual, I’m actively searching for issues in front of purchasing. Because those items are expensive as hell for me. There is only one synth I purchased as preorder after hearing only a few demos of it. It’s risky… :wink:

I just wondered because I’ve read again another thread where literally someone wrote this:
(I edited the products, because I don’t like namecalling):

It’s not the only one. I bet if I search here I find dozen of such threads.

I really wanted to know the motivation about such behaviour.
I guess it’s the missing synth shops in town and change in times. Perhaps I’m an old fart.

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#26

This seems kind of weird, I’ve never sent any gear back to a retail outlet, and almost exclusively buy used, but I also don’t think youtube demos in any way suffice when it comes to knowing if something works for you or not.

If someone uses return policies as a means to cure boredom with short trials of misc gear, that just seems like a headache if you are buying stuff you aren’t even interested in considering keeping. Just a big waste of time and restocking fees imo.

However, with the complete obliteration of brick and mortar stores in most regions, I can’t blame people for wanting to get hands on. There is a lot of gear I won’t consider because I have no way of trying it out. A stores return policy is there own business and I don’t think people taking advantage of policy effects the rest of us. It’s not like it drives prices up, gear is cheaper than ever, so why is this a problem for people not involved? Just enjoy the slightly used demo discount.

Seems like moral policing or something, who is the victim here? Do retail outlets like Sweetwater make their sales reps return commission payments or something?

#27

Perhaps youtube isn’t enough to see if an instrument is something for you.
I understand that. In the city I live there is not a single synth in display, and I live in a 2mio city.

How do you think about stores that sell opened boxes as new? I’ve read such stories too here.
That’s I think is the result of such return policies, I guess?
Maybe I was always lucky with my online purchases.
I had fun with all synths, some of them I sold - but never returned to the store.

#29

Okay.

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#30

Drunken purchase, sober regret. They’re under the influence of GAS, i guess :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t think this is hurting the seller, but buying things you neither want nor need is not the healthiest form of desire.

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#31

I’ve never done it with anything either. I couldn’t bear to do it. If I really didn’t want something I’d sell it or give it away, but most things I just keep.

My wife, on the other hand, once ordered 6 pairs of trainers - of various designs and sizes - with the intention of only keeping one. As I happened, she ended up keeping two of them but sent the rest back the day they arrived. It’s not just online stuff she does it with - she’ll buy 15 things in a store, bring them home and then return 10.

I’ve given up being embarrassed by it at this stage, although like I said, I’d never do it. If the return policy is there to be used, it’s there to be used. I have often taken advantage of it the other way by buying mint refurb/b-stock at a discount, so long live the returners!

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#32

The stores know the deal…it’s marketing. They’ve balanced the cost of returns against the appeal of flexibility for customers.

It’s really an ethical issue, and what you’re personally OK with. If something didn’t meet my expectations, I’d send it back. Hasn’t happened yet. But I don’t think that’s unreasonable. At the other end of the spectrum would be buying stuff with no intention of keeping it. Which I don’t think many people would think is cool. I guess they’d block someone after a few times. The grey area in the middle would be ordering a bunch of stuff knowing you’ll only keep one. I won’t judge there. Personally I’d do my research and order the best bet first, but other people have no time and big projects :man_shrugging:

#33

There is absolutely nothing unethical or bad about buying something online and returning it if it’s not what you thought, no matter how hard you researched or how many videos you watched. Don’t blame the consumers for shady businesses who pass off open box as new. That is 100% on the business

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#34

Well, if you are okay with ordering a bunch of stuff just to select one of it it’s okay for me. It’s your opinion, not mine.
I didn’t blame customers for shady business, I just saying one leads to the other.

#35

there is something wrong with buying a bunch of stuff online or from a traditional retailer with the intention of pounding out YouTube videos or tracks and returning within a certain window. There are definitely gear rental places one can do this.

I see a lot of people talk about sending back defective gear or gear that just didn’t work for them. I get that happens. But we’ve seen individuals even on this board throw thousands of dollars into gear to show off and abuse for 30 days with no intention of ever keeping it.

Most synth manufacturers are small companies and while the retailer may promote this practice, thinking it has no effect on the smaller companies that use the larger retailers to sell their product is false. Retailers will drop entire brands for stuff like this, that can be devastation to a smaller synth manufacturer.

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#36

BAX has a 120 day return policy??? That is absolute bonkers if true

Makes you wonder what you get is new

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#37

A lot of these synths aren’t available to try before you buy in person and YT vids only go so far tactically. I think it makes sense as you get to try the gear at home with your setup and then return what you don’t want or didn’t gel with after a few days. With Covid, this is more the case as brick and mortar stores are closed. Many of these stores have No Hassle returns, so also helps the B-stock inventory.

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#38

I think reading manuals, watching videos and doing your research only gets you so far, sometimes you have to actually have the thing in your setup before you realise you made a wrong purchase.

Having said this I think I have only returned 2 or 3 items in 30 years, and those were within one or 2 days of them arriving because it was obvious I hated them once I tried them :laughing:

On the other side of the coin I have bought quite a bit of gear that I took much longer to decide it wasn’t for me, often due to firmware shortcomings, or because the workflow might have took a while to learn before deciding it wasn’t for me, in those cases I missed the return window and sold at a loss.

There have been a few pieces that I regretted buying due to unreliability or build quality too, but again it happened after return window or just outside of warranty.

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#39

I find that most guitar pedals I order online are used/return stock. That annoys me like hell, since I’m paying full price and have sometimes been told “sorry mate you can’t return B-stock” WTF!
I do buy A DAMN LOT of pedals just to dick around, and 9/10 go onto ebay or gumtree after a week or two. I’d rather give someone a good deal than fuck around returning with online only shops.

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#40

Well, there several things that I WISH I had sent back when I got them. I would definitely have more money right now.

I have actually never returned any music gear, but many things have disappointed, and I end up losing money when selling them months / years later, or have trouble selling them at all.

I might return my first thing tomorrow - an underwhelming Eurorack module. Problem is I ordered it from Sweden :expressionless:

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#41

Where is all this B Stock then? :man_shrugging: a shop full of gear at second hand prices sound like a dream…?

#42

Yes just like this thread is your opinion… I don’t really understand the point you are trying to make so I will exit this thread

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