I was thinking of it as 2 x 8 = 16 channels as you can run them dual mono.
Good call, thanks — I hadn’t come across this one. Lots to like: the performance filter, the built-in sidechain, and proper stereo FX sends plus stereo inserts on the A/B busses. That last part is rare at this price and it’s exactly what’s been missing on most desks I’ve looked at.
The part I need to sit with is how I’d actually lay out my channels. If XFADE pairs two mono sources onto one strip sharing the same fader, EQ and sends, then I have to decide which of my sources can live together. My AlphaBase puts out 8 separate mono channels specifically so each drum element gets its own fader, and riding those individually is a big part of how I play. With the Virus on top (1 mono + 2 stereo) I land on exactly 8 channels — fits on paper, but only by pairing up the things I most want apart.
So it’s a real trade-off rather than a no. Worth me mapping it out properly before deciding.
Intellijel Jellymix and Boredbrain Xcelon SL are on my radar of future mixers once I sell off the old unused ones.
I passed on the xcelon because it’s 8 faders. You want 16 most likely.
Maybe an older mixwizard could be worth checking out. They are also fairly large though, but more top to bottom.
If it’s just about sound, you will need to make some compromises on size or go up in price. I’d also suggest taking a look at the Cadac Cardik Live1.
Had a proper look at the Xcelon SL and there are two things that rule it out for me.
No master insert. The only stereo inserts are on the Mix A and B busses, nothing on the main bus. So a bus compressor across the whole mix means routing every channel to Mix A and using its insert — which works, but burns one of only two submix busses on the compressor.
And the direct outs are fixed pre-fader. I record live and riding the faders is the performance, so pre-fader outs give me flat tracks with everything sitting at full level. That’s the opposite of what I need.
Coming from a BiG SiX, the bus compressor and capturing fader moves are exactly the two things I want to keep. Shame, because the filter, sidechain and stereo FX routing all look excellent — it’s just built around a different way of working than mine.
ohh thx for the cadac, shes fits but pretty rare
I’ve had the APB Spectra C 24 channel (plus 4 stereo). The H1020 uses similar components. The H1020 is probably the best current choice for a rackmount mixer if your budget allows. You don’t have enough space but I did see a nice looking Spectra T 24 come up for sale in NL yesterday, which has better EQ than the C. APB is known for great sound quality and they’re still around today.
I’ve had the WZ3 (I think) 14:4:2 and it’s a quite flexible mixer. However the best Mixwizard for studio use IMO is the WZ20S: 4 mono plus 8 (x2, dual use possible!) stereo channels, plus 2 stereo FX returns, and two main, cascading stereo buses and all the usual FX sends. Unfortunately it only exists as the WZ first gen version, no third or fourth gen WZ3/4, meaning they’re older desks, like the Venice. The sound is neutral and EQ basic, but that never bothered me.
In addition to the recommendations of others, as an all in one solution you could consider a digital desk - the A&H Qu5 / 5D is 10U and very, very expandable should your input / FX count grow. Professional, neutral sound and built in FX and no need for a sound card when recording.
Daisy chaining 2 or more Xcelon SLs and assign one of the main buses on the last in line as insert bus should work for you too I think? That they’re A & B doesn’t mean you have to use them that way. Of all the new performance mixers, that would be my choice. But if you have two you’re in H1020 territory, and still need to an UFX or something.
On the patch front, manual is good, but my recommendation is the Signex Arc 32 MIDI programmable 16x16 audio matrix if you can find one. Your mixer’s best buddy. There’s TS/unbalanced and TRS/balanced version. The TRS version lets you patch unbalanced stereo on a single TRS connection, any source to any destination (up to 4 per source), so a full 16 stereo matrix is possible with this compact 1U unit. And fully MIDI configurable so your sequencers can switch configs along with your instruments.
A dynamic patchbay is hugely flexible for FX routing and chaining without any manual re-plugging, but can also be used to manage (excess) sources. It’s flexible enough that I can now do everything I want, routing wise, on my Xone:96 and I don’t miss my bigger desk (much). Arc32s can be found for €150 or so; the next step up are pro studio patch systems costing thousands.
Oh, and I forgot, the Xone 464 is a great mixer too but its Mix1/2 bus setup is not flexible enough for you maybe.
What i dont understand: you literaly stated that you want a mixer for performance. The xcelon sl is a performance mixer. Why for the missing master insert you just get out of main and through whatever you would use on inserts?
If you in the end use your fader movements why just record the main and be done with it, why you bother about direct outs being post fader?
Your main goal is a mixing performance, with the sl you even gain a filter and main comp section which both screams for performance and are new and unique, live performance acts dreamed of things like this and had to use dj mixers for decades for that type of stuff (that solution is still great). Iam just wondering.
I just got the feeling that for example the sophisticated filter is perfect for what you do and your workflow would gain a lot.
The jellymix would be also interesting but my guess is you want proper faders.
Thanks, this is really helpful. You are so kind to explain me that
Coming from someone who’s owned a Spectra C, your take on the H1020 is the closest thing to a real endorsement I could hope for. That settles a lot of my doubts about whether it’s actually the right desk.
The WZ20S looks interesting on paper but it’s just too big for my space. Rackmount or desktop is a hard limit here.
On the Qu-5, I get the logic, but it reads to me like a band and touring desk, built for live sound reinforcement rather than electronic music performance. Not really the workflow I’m after.
I’ll be honest, I have no idea how two Xcelon SLs would actually work together in practice. And at that price I’d probably be better off putting the money into the APB.
And thanks for the Arc 32 tip — that one I’m definitely going to look into whichever way I go.
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You’re right about the direct outs, fair point. If the performance is the fader moves, then recording the main out captures exactly what I played — the multitrack thing was me solving a problem I don’t actually have. Dropping that one.
On the master insert though: I monitor on headphones, and the phones circuit taps the main mix. So anything I hang off the master output after the fact isn’t in what I’m hearing. A bus compressor I can’t hear is a bus compressor I can’t set. Routing everything to Mix A and using its insert works, and it’s probably what I’d do, it just costs me one of the two busses.
Maybe I should be clearer about what I mean by performance, because I don’t think I’m describing a DJ-style set. My workflow is: I build the track first, get all the sounds sitting right, EQ each machine, set compression, dial the whole thing in. Then I play it. The mixer and the machines are the instrument at that point, and I record the whole thing in one take, or a few. The prep is where the EQ work happens — the performance is what I do on top of it.
Which is why one switchable EQ band per channel gives me pause. Not because I want to EQ live, but because prep is where most of my shaping happens, and I’d be doing it with less than I have now. Same with channel count: AlphaBase on 8 separate outs, a Virus and a Tonverk puts me at 19 channels trying to fit into 8 strips.
That said — the SL brings a huge amount to the table and I don’t want to sound like I’m dismissing it. The filter, the sidechain, the per-channel drive, the stereo FX routing, the whole thing is genuinely exciting and there’s nothing else quite like it.
So really it comes down to two paths. Either the APB, which absorbs my setup with room to spare and gives me the EQ I want. Or the SL plus a patchbay, and a serious think about how I organise my channels — which of my drum outs really need their own strip, what gets paired, what gets submixed before it hits the desk. That second one isn’t off the table at all, it just needs actual planning rather than wishful thinking.
Still chewing on it. Appreciate you pushing back, it’s clarified a few things.
I would keep the B6, get the echelon and use that as drum mix, feed it into the last stereo channel on the B6.
That way you use all stereo channels (1 from Alpha, 2 from virus, one from drum mix)
You have 4 mono channels with great EQs, so you got your virus there, I would probably pull out the Alpha kick and run it directly to the B6 as well. Last two are optional. And the remaining alpha channels go to echelon. You have the opportunity to do send effects on echelon separately from the B6, and you retain you main Insert and flexible monitoring chain
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WZ20S, H1020 and Qu-5 are very comparable size wise and all 10U rack mountable. The WZ20S (like any MixWizard) has a very clever pivotable part where the connections move fully to the rear when rack mounted, but are positioned horizontal when in a desktop setup.
The Qu-5 is positioned as a live desk mostly, but I can tell you it’s more flexible than any of the other mixers discussed here and works equally well in studio. There’s the odd menu dive here and there but with several shortcut buttons and knobs plus full app and MIDI programmability you can make it do what you want in the way you feel comfortable with very easily. The main thing it lacks is ‘character’ but that is very personal and easily compensated with adding and inserting FX.
Another contender in this space could be the Crest X-Rack series, also a 10U rack mount unit with rear connections. It’s available in various configurations, with up to 24 channels and 12 sends/buses. The team that originally designed these mixers left after Crest was acquired by Peavey and moved on to found APB. The Crest XR-20 is almost identical to the H1020 and can be had second hand for less than €500. I had one for a bit but it had so many flaws I returned it.
I paired an Alpha Base with a Mackie Onyx 16. 8 mono, four stereo, multitrack over usb if you want to use daw fx per channel. 2x mono sends for pedals and some on board fx to boot! Great sounding mixer too.
Right, I’ve made up my mind. Going with the Xcelon SL and a patchbay.
Thanks to everyone who chipped in here, this thread genuinely changed how I was thinking about the whole thing.
Why not the Venice: I’ve read a lot of good things but I’ve never heard one, and I’m not comfortable spending on a 20 year old desk on reputation alone. The repair side worries me too — if something goes on a console that age, I’m not sure where I’d take it.
Why not the APB: it’s clearly the better desk on paper for my setup and I don’t doubt that. But the used one I found is 4300 when the distributor has B-stock at 5300. Paying that close to new money for a used unit with no warranty didn’t add up for me.
What won me over on the SL is the performance side — the assignable filter, the sidechain, the per-channel drive and compression, proper stereo FX routing. There’s nothing else out there doing all that in one box, and it’s built for exactly the way I play.
Dual mono is what makes 8 strips workable, and a patchbay on top of it means I’m not locked into one layout. Prep the routing, then play. That fits how I work anyway.
Thomann do 30 days return so I’ll find out soon enough whether the sounds quality is not good. In this case i will go maybe on the midas.
Cheers all and thx again for your love.
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from what I heard they are releasing it with some sort of mod explained where you can switch the direct outs to post fader. I preordered one as well and will definitely look into doing that mod. I like to record out the master for a live performance style recording but also like to multitrack to a 16 track recorder in case I’d like to rework the recording.
the thing I need to figure out is if and how I’ll be using a patchbay with the xcelon.