The julien's Multiple sound interfaces VS one big USB mixer post

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#1

I’m in an infinite decision loop.

I know here, on elektronauts, you are so all different with a lot of so smart setups, with many new ideas and sharing things, that I decided to post it here too.

The main idea here is multiple sound interfaces VS combining one with a big USB mixer for acquiring all sound sources.

My setup is quite easy.

I have :

  • a modular case including an ES8 with inputs expander optic. For all signals related things (control and audio) coming from/to computer to/from modular case. Shuttle control offering all midi to cv gate operation.

  • Some synths, not a lot (about 6 inputs needed for that, only)

  • Some drum machines, with independent outputs (about 8 inputs required)

  • My (Mac m1max 64Go Ram) computer with sequencers, vsts, custom max things. Not always a daw. It is the center for all signals, and the one that mix everything and outputs the final audio.

  • Some pedals, fx, often used as inserts, but sometimes as parallel fx.

  • One motu ultralite avb (8 inputs +2mic and 8outputd)

  • Some controllers for controlling my levels, parameters and what I want to drive on stage too. I’m often altering my machines themselves too (drum machines etc) beside all automation involved and running.

I’m questioning myself as I now need more inputs.

The question,is should I go to usb mixers or “just” to another motu and in this latter case, if use an aggregated audio device in my Mac, don’t know if,I’d use 2usb or just one and adlat ink between bother motu.

I looked at soundcraft signature 22 mtk (or possibly a12)

I know it is basically an analog mixer including a digital interface.

USB Sends are post gain and pre everything, which allows inserts in daw and get back the signal if want to mix analog… But I often do the whole mix in my computer. So I’m not sure about the use of faders and eq here EXCEPT if I want to color the mix with the specific grain of this soundcraft analogue gear.

Soundcraft seems very nice but I don’t want to get one and to use only 10% of its potential as my setup is more that way.

Also, no insert return possible except by using spare inputs tracks…

I also looked at some concurrent. Presonus. Even Xenyx…

Not convinced.

The thing that would be nice with a mixer, which I know is just up to my use…, would be to plug things, to have many inputs, to gain them, And to record these independant tracks in my daw.

Or perform live like this. But doing the mix inside the computer would make the eq and fader useless here.

I’m thinking about another way that could be eventually interesting : getting all my sound sources in the USB mixer, doing all my cooking in my daw, grouping sources in groups as I use to do (drums and percussives, pads and textures, bass and low) and them back to the mixer for eq them live, and for output the audio from the mixer itself.

Gosh iI’m in an infinite decision loop.

The global other way would be full aggregated sound interface.

Of course, with 2motu (which are also very very flexible as portable etc) I’d only have 16 inputs, more or less. For my whole stuff from external sound sources to send/returns external fx too.

Not so much. And A LOT of outputs which would be pointless for me (except this, for send return fx as I wrote.

Combining a mixer and motu…not sure.

If I go to this kind of usb mixer, I think the idea is to have the same number of traacks s mixer channel, kind of mirroring this. So it means a BIG mixer and some part going to my motu which wiuod add overwhelming complications which i don’t want.

About performing live, a mixer would had new ways of improvisations if I don’t use my computer as a mixer, but considering the big cooking I often do in the computer (massive use of sidechaining everywhere and dynamically enabled or not depending of the performance moments etc) maybe I already have my answer… and an analogue usb mixer is totally pointless in my setup and what I just need is : MORE INPUTS and mixing everything on computer,which fits my current way and add flexibility for me.

I’d be curious to know which kind of other sound interface I should chose for completing my motu ultralite avb. I’d need to be sure about clock between them. I wouldn’t need so much outputs but more inputs.

I don’t know about 2 usb vs 1usb and adat between sound interface.

I hope this is not a yet boring thread about it but I read a lot of threads debating this kind of questions and they are all useful ,IMHO, as we can always find some new ways of thinking and new ideas of setup so thiiss why allowed me to post here.

Any ideas, opinions would be VERY appreciated

Thanks a lot
Julien

1 Like
#2

Yep, this is the worst dilemma and one I’ve wasted countless hours worrying about with no real solution. I have a real sense of guilt as a hobbyist of over speccing a mixer/interface based on what I think I want vs what I actually need and how I actually record.

Some questions:

  • How many sources do you actually record at once vs how many sources do you just want to have connected at once? Is a patchbay a better option?

  • Do you have space for a big mixer? Sounds like you want in the region of 24 inputs.

  • Does a recording/jamming setup have to be the same as a live setup? You might come up with something you think covers both but is in effect an 80% compromise both ways.

  • If you have complicated mixes set up in a DAW you might feel hamstrung on a physical mixer.

  • Do you have strong preference to digital or analog mixers? It seems to me that most of the analog usb mixers have pretty limited external fx send and return options which might limit how you integrate your fx pedals.

3 Likes
#3

Thanks for your answer.
Actually, and indeed, maybe the complexity of my mixing part requires a daw. Not for everything neither for all sequencing but for the final mixing (studio and live). Yes.

That would push me to another sound interface way.

Getting another motu could provide a nice flexibility as I could take both for big setup or just one for lighter setup on-stage.

I checked that Zoom L20R
Nice big rack full of inputs.
Apparently needing an iPad to control (in my case I don’t want to add a control step more as I need -only- inputs, gain, and all is done in the computer.
And I’m afraid of converters vs motu converters.
But it could do the trick. 20 inputs!
But Less flexible as a sound interface as it got few output for complex external fx send/return ways.

Yes. Probably, a new motu and adat (vs 2 usb linked to computer) could be good

Got that ultralite avb. PAIN IN THE ASS with my Mac m1. Requires a network link if I want to just change the routing (and it comes with a nice dsp and mixer inside actually,too) PLUS the USB link for sound.
I’d buy a ultralite mk5 for being the frontal one and would link the avb to it through adat for sure.
In order to control the routing easier directly on the mk5.

Still drawing… But it seems to converge. At last!

#4

I’m now using a Motu 16A and a Focusrite Clarett connected with ADAT.
24 analog in and outs. And mixing everything in the DAW.

3 Likes
#5

I own a Qu24 and while it’s fine cause I can easily switch from one source to the other, I figured that the number of inputs of your sound card or usb mixer doesn’t have to follow the number of outputs of your gear.

A patchbay is cheap, passive, and makes it extremely easy to switch from a setup to another one.

I have two of these and very happy with them, it makes the studio way more flexible.

3 Likes
#6

I use a Behringer XR18 as the center of my studio as well as for perfoming live with my 3-piece electro band.
I combine this mixer with a patchbay and that is really convenient.
18 inputs, 6 monitor outs, 2 master outs.

It is very configurable. Has scenes with which you can switch through setups quite quick.
Total recall (including fx) and midi automatable.
Full fledged channel strip on all channels (good for live use) and even used the 4 fx units in live use.
The possibility to make individual headphone mixes is a live saver for my band.

I don´t have complex pedal arrays and the XR18 does not have inserts (which I don´t need atm).
I have quite a bunch of synths, Elektron boxes etc.

In studio use I combine the XR18 with an X-Touch which is a Mackie controller clone.
My DAW is Reaper and the X-Touch is phantastic in controlling both the mixer and Reaper.

I know that Behringer has this cheapo image but in my case (ambitious amateur :wink:) it has a great value for money and fits all my needs.

Maybe not what you are looking for, but for me it´s decent enough.

2 Likes
#7

Thanks a lot for your answers and experiences sharing.

@chapelierfou yes, this is the closest to my needs. As I wrote. I converge to this, finally.
Was thinking about a mixer for developing some new improvisations ideas. Yes the soundcraft would be nice for playback finally and using daw as inserts. But…later.

@LyingDalai qu24 is out of my budget currently. And yes, this could be the thing I’d need in the end.

@TheWhistler saw the xr18. Could be the best compromise. I don’t see the remote control as a problem as, indeed, with all our motus, we are doing this… Using computers.
Just would like to figure out if we can do it with an ethernet physical connection.
But my main concern here, is the converters quality, which is PROBABLY a big a priori.
The lack of outputs for my external fx send return could be a small problem heretp too. Small as I don’t have a lot of multiple circuits outside of the box (and some are handled with my modular and es8)

Motu converters vs Berhinger ones
A priori are strong here.

#8

Just remembered the cuemix 5 thing with motu.
Can’t even figure out if mk5, also sold as a Standalone mixer feature, can be controlled using midi/OSC. Seems to be not.
Actually, it could fit the idea of no computer f I need that. And to use the mk5 as a digital mixer indeed. Powerful dsp inside, I tested it some time ago.

But I imagine it can only be done with a virtual surface (ipad) running cuemix 5) and nohaexqre controller way…

#9

Have you seen what I mentioned about patch bays? This is really what you need, IMO :wink:

You won’t be plates no all your synths and drum machines at the same time, so this is why you don’t really need a biiiig mixer.
I found out too late, don’t do the same mistake !

2 Likes
#10

I’m with @LyingDalai here: a patchbay seems the best solution. You can’t go wrong buying one anyway (well, ok, it will double all the cables you need to use but that’s a minor gripe I guess).

I have about the same number of synths and modular but never record them all at the same time, do you?

My Overbridge enabled Elektron’s boxes serve me as a card extension for my Apollo Twin. It only has 2 inputs but with OB and DN/A4/DT, it gives me 6 extra inputs when necessary and I record the Elektrons directly via USB/OB into my Apollo. I might buy an ADAT to get 8 extra inputs but I’m fine with my setup right now. But if I buy an ADAT, I’ll buy a patchbay too.

#11

I read. And I know patch bays.
My setup is same in studio and on stage, often. And yes, my workflow is 98% sequencing and recording live.
So patch bay is a no way here.

#12

If you already have an AVB interface look at expanding the system via AVB rather than aggregation.

I have 2 AVB interfaces and them working together is bliss. Less problems than ADAT and definitely less than Mac aggregation.

1 Like
#13

Still hesitating for that.
It would require a specific switch, etc.

I’m going to check this.

#14

You don’t need a switch if you only have 2 devices. They can be connected together. You only need a switch when you have 3 or more.

Simple ethernet cable between 2 will work.

#15

If you record everything live, add more i/o unless you are really really good at mixing and don’t care that you will be recording into a stereo file.

Or get a mixer that can send enough separate i/o out for what you need. I personally have a small set up now and don’t need to record everything live all at once. So I can send my drum machine and Octatrack into an SSL Six and record takes from those into ableton and get 6 seperate tracks coming in with a main stereo input as well. That setup takes around 6 outs and 8 ins.

Honestly a patchbay connected to an interface sending ADAT to another interface is the way to go in your situation. I have that setup as well. The Patchbay is there for me in case I need to plug something in the front. Makes things super easy. I have 20 ins and 16 outs which is all I need. You may need an extra interface so you have 24 i/o, but you don’t really need a mixer, imo.

Other thing you can do is get a small 8 channel mixer and send the drum machine into that and submix the drums into a stereo channel. Your call there, adding mixers can get complicated, so I’d start with a lot of i/o.

1 Like
#16

Except that with a m1, motu avb requires both a USB and a ethernet connection… Thanks to the driver and to Apple security.

#17

Thanks for your view and experiences.
Drums also require independent channels here. Doing a lot of sound analysis for triggering visuals and things.

So yes. Definitely, I think more i/o and probably adat should be my go.

1 Like
#18

seems you already have an answer for what you need.

and something similar to this would solve that problem.

#19

I’m in a similar situation and have been back and forth with what I want or what it best. Currently have and old Mac Pro 2007 and Appogee Ensemble, those same patch bays @LyingDalai mentioned with and old 16 channel Mackie VLZ and various line level instruments. Ive been on the fence if I should upgrade my mixer and keep the workflow I have, I do enjoy the quickness and flexibility a mixer gives me and would also hope something new/better would impart a welcomed sound improvement. Or, what it sounds like others have recommend, is to upgrade my Mac and sound card, looking at Apollo, and send direct from patch bay to interface. My questioning the direct to sound card is I dont have any experience with that gain/sound of direct in to sound card and I do have effects I like to print simultaneously through the aux sends of mixer. Latency… always having the go back to the mouse to enable or route a send type thing come to mind. Not to highjack this thread, but it seems like the conversation is flowing here.
Dont need the mixer for live use, this is all for studio.

#20

Didn’t know this. Not on M1 yet. Damn that will cost me when upgrading.