The groovebox market

The Lounge General Discussion
#82

I still vaguely remember when I started looking for an all in one box years ago. Got an MC303, which was fun for a minute. Outputs were super noisy. When the MC505 was announced, I snapped one up quick before the resale of the 303 crashed. Much better sounding, but was a drag to work with in my experience. I also didn’t put in the time. Then I went ‘all out’ and bought a Korg Trinity with all the bells and whistles. Bought the additional (Z1?) mono synth engine add on and the optional built in digital 4 track recorder. That thing cost a (relative) fortune…like around $5k with all the options. Tried doing full tracks on it, which was easy and possible, but in the end I hated it and just occasionally used it for synth overdubs here and there. It developed a strange intermittent issue that my local tech couldn’t fix, so it’s sat in a closet for at least 15 years now. I got it in my head that ‘all in one’ solutions do pretty much everything, but don’t seem to do any one thing particularly well…not sure I’m wrong, either :slight_smile:

Many years later I bought a Digitakt and started making complete tracks on it that I liked and had a blast making. Added a OTMK2 and can go even further into weirdness and fun, though it’s been a tough box to wrap my head around.

If you accept the quirks, there’s a lot of evidence that a DN or DT can make amazing tracks. A quick search on YouTube confirms this.

Personally, a sampler with a sequencer works best for me because I can’t get sick of the internal sounds…I can go grab new sounds any time I please. Just a thought!

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#83

I dunno even with the old monomachine and machinedrum it seems like you were better off with both boxes, machinedrum lacking chromatic and monomachine lacking voices. Any elektron boxes you can still make cool songs on by themselves but your world really opens up when you have 2 of them. Even the old gear improved massively from having at least one other box to help with its weaknesses. I understand wanting one box to do it all but I don’t think that has ever actually been a realistic option other than a laptop. I would recommend A4 and Digitakt or whatever double combo you like, having 2 boxes opens up preforming in many good ways.

#84

The new generations have missed the grooveboxand many are not interested by oldbox
Today They are in possession with drummachine ,samplemachine, synthmachine and
Many instruments look like groovebox workflow.It’s better sound and more intweet lab’ !

Elektron understood it when they built their first box (boxafterSidstation)

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#85

I was thinking the same thing :wink:

Based on everything OP is saying and him wanting to bite the bullet, the closest I think he’ll get (out of Elektron anyway) is the MnM. I mean, I really don’t think you can do this on any other machine that doesn’t have sample capabilities:

(that patch is gone forever, thanks to me not saving my snapshot :disappointed_relieved:)

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#86

I’m gonna start by saying grooveboxes and box shaped synths are my thing. I’ve always been drawn to them over keyed synthesizers.

That being said I think the view of how the old days were is very skewed. Grooveboxes were largely pitched to the dj as a way to add original content to dj sets. They were never really meant to be high quality replacements for a handful of complex synths. Most were mediocre and a few were great.

Comparatively I believe we are in a better state now than we were. We now have boxes that are complex and excel so much beyond their intended purposes to the point where people are comparing them to all in one grooveboxes. The mnm which seems to be a hot comparison point in this topic is such a complex synth that it’s easy to utilize it as an all in one box. Ultimately that’s not what it’s meant for but it’s suitable for the task.

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#87

I’m curious what you mean by this. What is the MnM “meant for”?

#88

It reminds me of this video

#89

I don’t agree that grooveboxes were directly pitched at djs, more likely aimed at non keyboard players.
Most that I saw were used pretty much stand alone, as opposed to augmenting vinyl play.

I also think that most modern boxes are actually less complex than the older stuff, the range and quality of FX being one example.

#90

The monomachine was originally pitched as a synth with multiple synthesis types. I believe the keyboard version even came out before the box. It also didn’t contain all the synthesis types that it has now. So originally intended as a synth, but able to do much more.

I’m sure you disagree with this about the mono especially having obtained it as a complete/finished machine more recently. Elektron has generally been pretty clear about the drum machine/synth paradigm they utilize for products and generally market their boxes as such.

#91

There are manuals and advertising material that accompanied some grooveboxes suggest they were aimed largely at djs. Yamaha is one that was especially prominent doing this, roland as well.

Complexity is a weird thing. Yeah some better effects, but not deep in the synthesis often utilizing pcm sounds so we get deeper synthesis options now. Additionally sequencers of old grooveboxes aren’t really comparable to the complex’s ones that are available now, especially in the realm of motion sequencing and parameter locking.

Perspectives are reality though and I’m not looking to change yours, I’m just sharing my opinion.

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#92

Oh it’s not that I disagree, I was just curious is all. What you say makes sense. It does seem a bit funny to call it a “synthesizer” when they went out of their way to put a (primitive) drum machine in there. But I guess if it was more intended for all in one the drum engine would’ve been much more robust.

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#93

This is absolutely true. The Yamaha SU700 and Roland’s MC-303 are some of the earliest examples. Music stores at the time had these awkwardly branded “DJ production” stations on the showroom floor and you’d frequently see these two together. They were squarely marketed to devotees of dance music culture. Fog machines and lights were typically nearby as were the turntables in the late 90s.

I found this targeted marketing approach to be something that probably caused many potential users to be dismissive. I don’t see too many electronic musicians using the Roland MV or Akai MPC platforms but they are perfect for this type of music. More often than not the target was the urban music scene and as a result many never even gave these boxes a second of consideration. But then again, the Roland TB-303 was designed as a stand alone bass guitar replacement so there’s that…

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#95

Yes I totally agree. This is why the MD doesn’t leave my MnM’s side :stuck_out_tongue: Why bother programming drums on the MnM when it’s much easier and deeper on the MD?

There is something to be said for “limitations breed creativity” sort of mindset though. Forcing myself to make whole backing tracks on the MnM has only deepened my understanding.

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#96

Spectralis 2 from Radikal Used to be hi end next to Elektron. https://www.radikaltechnologies.com/spectralis2_hybrid_synthesizer/

Analog Digital Hybrid with Sample engine and fixed Filterbank.

Nowadays i would say that a eurorack modular Setup is the new groovebox vs. Akai MPC Live vs. NI Machine MK3 on the other side of the groovebox spectrum. Oh and of course an iPad with Korg Gadget vs Notebook with Propellerheads Reason 10 vs. Ableton Live 10 w. Push2.

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#97

One of the most under appreciated boxes ever created. The spectralis 2 got a major bump in functionality compared to the first one if I remember correctly. Difficult to find one now.

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#98

I always wanted that box, it was a shame that it seemed incomplete for so long.

#99

Yes definately. Jörg did some bad design decisions but man that thing Sounds awesome!
I Like His new Delta Cep Module too.

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#100

Just checked ebay…Last one sold 2 months ago for $1700. Yeah, I’d say that’s pretty hard to find lol.

#101

Oooh, I heard some awesome demos of drums from the MnM. I think they have their own charm

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#102

I agree! There are even sounds missing I wish were on the MD, like the snap and the woodblock and I think a triangle? Plus the MD doesn’t have filter envelopes or per-track delay like the MnM

Well I guess when you put it that way there are loads of reasons to use the MnM drums :sweat_smile:

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