The Fear

The Lounge General Discussion
1

Fellow knob twiddlers,

I still consider myself pretty new to the whole electronic music production thing. That said, I’ve been new to it for about 7 years at this point, with a long break in the middle. My level of engagement (not interest) comes and goes as other things (work, other hobbies, nice weather) come and go, but I’m making an effort to add some discipline to it: if I can go to the rock gym twice a week, why can’t I spend on night a week in front of the gear? No reason, right? I love doing it. Shouldn’t be hard.

Well, I’ve found something that occasionally keeps me from diving in when playtime starts. I’ve come to call it The Fear. There are many fears, but mine is this:

I haven’t found a way to get into and out of and back into “projects” and as a result I end up feeling stuck in the thing that I’m currently working on/playing with. Often I won’t want to work on that idea, for example the idea that comes up when I turn on all my gear is kinda upbeat and light, almost high-spirited. Last week I just wanted to turn the tempo down, turn the reverb up, and get spacey for a little bit, but I couldn’t! Two things stopped me.

The mechanics of saving the states of all the machines for the old song; in particular, fear or doing it wrong and having part of the idea lost when I go back to it.

Not having a good method for tracking where that old idea was, or how to, from session to session, leave an idea half-baked but still be able to come back to it and make progress.

I’m curious if anyone else experiences these things and how people tend to overcome them? I suspect much of it is “Buck up and try, and if you fail you learn!” and “Have you read all the manuals yet?” (workinonit). And possible, keep a journal around and have the state of ideas in it.

For context, my setup is listed below. It’s embarrisngly expensive given how much of a newb at it all I am. Also, there’s no computer anywhere. I stare at those damn things all day. Don’t want to touch a mouse while I’m musicing. I’m not entirely set on this, but I love the Cirklon too much to put Cubase or something else in instead. The gear:

Elektron Four
Elektron Rytm
Elektron Octatrak *
Access Virus TI2 **
Cirklon ***
Akai MPK 49
12ch mixer
2 monitors
sub

  • Was purchased primary as a stand in sequencer while waiting for the Cirklon.
    ** I love this thing.
    *** I really love this thing.

Of course, I love the Elektron gear, too, but you guys already know how great they are.

Thoughts I’ve had:

I’ve considered getting a small desktop, maybe a Mac mini, just to be able to use Overbridge and the Virus software to control the library.

Maybe the Cirklon is too romantic of an idea and it would be more practical for the amount of time I spend with the gear to use Cubase combined with Overbridge/the Virus software might just be more practical.

I shouldn’t give up on not using a computer yet.

I shouldn’t be so stubborn. Mice aren’t all that bad in limited quantities.

So, that’s my extremely first-world, whiny self-spoiled, adult, middle-class white guy problem: my expensive music gear takes too many button presses to save it all. Wah wah. Someone save me.

Thoughts?

Thanks!

2

I feel you, I’m kind of in the same situation as you. I’m trying think of it this way - the gear are musical instruments. The more you practice the more fluid you are on them, like with an acoustic instrument with no save option. What matters is how you use them to convey what you feel. Mistakes are human and most of the time they are noticeable to you only.

3

pretty much the same here … but I dont have these “fears” … firstly, you are at the right space, to make your emotions heard! …
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my “thing” is: I do it, within 24 it must be recorded into ableton, and after recording straight uploaded to youtube… rule of thumb: if I wait more than 24 hours, things just go to shit.
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if things go to shit: then rule 2 applies:
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rule 2: live in the moment. ( TrabanT creates music primarily for himself as a means of meditation, reenergizing, everything beyond that is bonus… bonus points do not have to be achieved by either finishing projects, or uploading things)
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if I manage to record a session / track / project / jam of mine I ALWAYS put it on my phone, and listen to it while commuting… the feeling that arises during listening to my own shit, and reliving the process of creation is “more than bonus, and reliving meditation”
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without my elektron boxes I could have n o t h i n g of that. I am forever grateful.

4

Why do you need to put it on youtube FFS?

5

[quote="“4.33"”]

Why do you need to put it on youtube FFS?[/quote]
the step / idea between putting it out there and not putting it outthere …there is a tiny voice in my head that says: just put it out there, it is only 10 clicks away, costs nothing, maybe somebody will really enjoy it, use it, get inspired, might even want to colaborate, could show off to somebody (buying gear second hand, pressing play on youtube, see thats me) … shrug shrug… it is almost like bringing an empty bottle to the recycling, just 3 more meters than throwing it into the general bin basket… shit, I assume I dont make sense… what does FFS mean?

6

I am also in a very similar situation and also have similar gear;
Octatrack
Rytm
Virus TI
Mac Laptop with Logic/Live

I found it hard to come back to a track/project and pick up exactly where I left off. With a DAW it is easy, just save and come back anytime. With a hardware sequencer and external gear it is harder to keep track of which patch you were using or which pattern etc.

I was trying to use the Octatrack as the hub/sequencer which is great in some ways. But like you I would try and come up with something and finish it then and there then upload to SoundCloud. I could then listen to it anytime and reflect.

I started to think that even though I love my Elektron gear, I do end up with a particular style of track when producing on them. I also find it harder to come up with arrangements using them in comparison to a DAW.

To try and infuse some more music into my productions I have started using XferRecords “Cthulhu” which lets you play one finger chords. I use this in Logic X. It is stacked with different chords so you can come up with progressions and then arpeggios based on those chords. I figure I will transfer them back to the Octatrack for some jamming.

7

I sort of understand your “fear” - in my case, I love synths and grooveboxes, and drum machines and techo/house/electronic music in general… so I went crazy 8 years ago buying all sorts of gear, but finally I realized where I spend all my free time:

  • playing hockey

  • running 5K’s and 10K’s while listening to a lot of electronic music

  • coaching U15 soccer

After family life, I basically leave the last few scraps of free time to playing music (usually on a Friday or Saturday after muchos cervezas). So in my case, it is a matter of not really putting in the time for this, which really translates to “electronic music making” is like a sub-hobby - I’m just not willing to put in the time to master it. but I’m OK with that, because I much prefer my hockey and running!

8

A little under two years ago I solved this problem for myself by cutting out a ton of post production. Now I just get the basic thing how I like it and record it live. Once it is recorded, it is done. Most tracks stay in that form, a few get sampled and then rerecorded in the same quick and dirty style.
That way I don’t spend hours on something making it slightly better or outright wasting a ton of time with no real results.
It’s also way more fun…I like engineering but I can do that working on stuff that friends do. I’d rather just play music and create than constantly refine and rework the same ideas. I’m a hobbyist musician, and I choose hobbies for enjoyment. Spending too much time on something overengineering/arranging it is too much like work for me.

9

Something you could try, just for fun.

Forget projects, patches and saves.
Just turn everything on and start pressing buttons.
If the volition arises to hit record, go with it, otherwise, enjoy what comes.

This is the approach I take. It’s not an ideology, it’s just how things happen.

One thing I don’t always do is wait for inspiration, and in fact some of the most “inspired” moments have come from walking into the room and switching on the machines when I don’t even feel particularly inspired. There’s a recognition that feeling inspired has nothing to do with what happens when the machines are switched on and that unnameable magic transforms the moment.

10

From my experience with any kind of creative art, professional or not, is that if you don’t put in the time and create a routine, it will wear you down.

It’s not about the amount, it’s about the commitment. Commitment, however, shouldn’t be confused with amount of hours or potential sacrifices. It’s part of it, but it’s perfectly fine to consider something a hobby, that others think of as a career or even a dream.

Commitment is about you telling yourself “I’m gonna do this, and I’m gonna do it this way”, and then do it.

Every time you don’t, the distance between you and what you want do to, grows.

11

One word: focus. Limit yourself to one machine for a (long) while. For me this would be the A4. Try to make something you like with just those four tracks. Copy your pattern and create slight variations, e.g., intro, drop, etc. Practice to perform your track live. When you feel adventurous, bring in Rytm and replace the beats you created in the A4. Practice some more. Eventually bring in OT for transitions, one shots or whatever floats your boat.

Hans

P.s.: I doubt adding any more gear at this point makes sense.

12

  1. You might want to read “Making Music - 74 Creative Strategies for Electronic Music Producers” by Dennis DeSantis. It deals with a lot of the stuff you’re describing. It’s also available on iBooks and Kindle.

  2. I don’t see why you should feel bad about the amount of gear you own and how expensive it might have been. As long as you can afford it, there’s no huge problem there IMHO. It’s OK to not use a specific piece of gear for a while; you don’t have to use all your stuff in every track all the time.

  3. Your hardware-only setup is not really suitable for a workflow where you switch between projects a lot. Saving and retrieving state is always going to be a bit of a hassle. It might be helpful to change your workflow accordingly. How you do this is entirely up to you, but here are some suggestions:

  • Don’t be afraid to throw stuff away. You don’t have to keep every single idea or pattern or patch or whatever in every single state or instance in which it might be useful at some point in the future. As an alternative, you can also make it a habit to record these kind of ideas to two-track so you can use them as inspiration or starting points later. It’s actually much easier to rebuild patches or patterns you created earlier from audio recordings than you might imagine.

  • Not everything has to become a polished track. Give yourself permission to just jam a bit if you feel like it.

  • Decide on approach for a project that you feel like doing and then finish that before you move on to the next thing. This could be a 30-minutes live set, an EP, or maybe just a fully fleshed-out single track. It doesn’t matter what it is, but you should create a plan for how and when you are going to do it, schedule the time to do it, and than actually work on it as planned.

  1. Finally, accept that writing music is actually hard work and not something you can just squeeze in every evening of the week when you’re already tired from your day job. I’m not saying it’s not OK to own and use your gear purely to jam on and play around with for relaxation (it’s a hell of a lot better than just sitting in front of the TV all evening!), but it might help you to lower your expectations of what you’ll be able to produce if you aren’t able to put in the work because your life is in the way. :slight_smile:
13

I completely understand your challenges. I have very similar issues, and can never seem to finish tracks. And like you said, everything is easier in a DAW, but I also use a computer all day every day, and when I’m done with work, the last thing in the world that I want to do is use a computer and mouse.

The advice in this thread is great. Putting it all into practice takes letting go of having expectations for the time your making music. I’ve finally learned that it is far better to stop working on material that has stalled, and just move on. The more you go through the process, and the more material you make, the better you become at it, and then you don’t spend so much time scratching your head and getting bored or frustrated. But I still can’t seem to make a legit track with a structure. Honestly, I think the problem for some of us is that we want to create something professional sounding, but in reality we’re far from being professional!

The suggestion is limiting yourself to on piece of gear is really good. Starting with all the gear switched ‘on’ is overwhelming. I get far better results when I’m just experimenting and focused on one thing, be it a beat or sound design. If something comes to shape, I save it in one of my ‘Experiments’ projects to be used later. I have several of these experiments projects that contain all sorts of random bits that I can use as starting points, or add to other in progress material. The challenge to this approach is that Elektron’s file management system is a pain in the ass and sucks the happiness right out of a person!

14

I used to feel this fear constantly. So much that I stopped writing music for 7 or 8 years. This post totally made me feel melancholy and like writing down a bit of my story. Hopefully its not too boring or out of place. Sorry in advance I get wordy!!

I fell in love with electronic music around the era of early 90s raves and underground parties. I played bass in a punk band and also in a jazz/funk improv type jamming band. My bandmate and I were both closet computer nerds and after stumbling accross a mod player/tracker and listening to some crazy drum & bass, jungle, and hardcore tunes from some random FTP site, I realized “THIS is what I want to do!!”. It was super fun. Tracking on a computer was a dream come true. I would layer up 2 or 3 kick drums and make kickdrum rolls so loud that it would shake my appartment building. 160bpm seemed too slow back then LOL. Technology grew slowly over time and the first DAW’s gained ability to use samples, basic effects and eventually VST plugins of instruments etc etc. I’m sure many people here can remember this. Possibilities felt endless!

This was the year my music died.

I used to jam. I used to feel love and passion for what I was doing. Then all of the sudden it was more important to tweak and fiddle and design and find new plugins. I would spend hour upon hour at a screen moving a mouse and listening to the same loops over and over and over tweaking infinitely small settings of some random VST synth. This wasn’t writing music. I used to love living in a box when it was simple and pure. So I quit.

Now years later I’m back and its 100% hardware and I’m an entirely new man. I try and only use the macbook only to chop samples, load them into devices and take the recordings and put them on my phone so I can play them for my wife. Its bliss. I won’t go on an on about why its better. I’m sure most people in the forum know why. Simply put: It’s a feeling. Tactile. Instrumentality.

So my advice is run with that. Revel in your gear. Play it like its a lady - bring it to bed with you. Jimmy Hendrix and his guitar kinda shit. Light it on fire !

Oh and on a less romantic level tricks I use are:

  • Don’t spend super long on any one idea … just rock out for a while record that idea and move on. Don’t worry about saving the machine state, the midi data, even the patches. Who cares - if the idea is good enough to make into a full blown track, then you’ll find it again easily enough.
  • When you get like 5 or 10 or 20 ideas listen to them again and if a few stick out then really dedicate time to finalizing them. Ideas can be 1 bar, 4 bars, or 100 bars quality not quantity! hah
  • If you only have limited time to work, just dedicate the session to one thing IE: just jam out or just design sounds or just polish that old song.
  • Don’t punish yourself.
  • The best ideas come spontaneously and usually fast like a lightning bolt. Play and have fun don’t force it.
  • I makes notes on paper about my ideas and what I want to achieve. Usually at work when I can’t play!
    Oh and lastly I made this dumb inspirational note on my phone. I pull it out and look at it once in a while:

“If you want to be truly free to create, you must first give up the dream of being perfect. The music is all there in your head and in your heart. The notes are already known, the rythms can be felt. Pursue every idea. Trust your ears.”

-Walter (onoffon)

15

After working with synt’s for over more than 30 years I came to the conclusion that I need very little gear that I can manage. It’s not the amouth of gear that’s gonna make you a good artist. Its for a big part that you know your gear inside -out - know how to use it - going behind it’s limits . I hear alot of stuff on the internet that’s not interesting - but than I see the gear and I think " TO MUCH CAN BE AS BIG A PROBLEM AS NOT HAVING ENOUGH .OF SOMETHING "
Reading your text makes me think u should kick some gear out - go t the basics - so to the point where you loos the fear - and restart from there :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
Maybe you want to much to soon. - start with 1 or 2 instruments at the max - and stay at that level until you play fearless - and find a system to save that. Only when you get there - witch may take a year or more - than MAYBE - add an 3th instrument - if you really need it ! Go slow - don’t force yourself - don’t get in the ratrace - but enjoy.

16

“If you want to be truly free to create, you must first give up the dream of being perfect. The music is all there in your head and in your heart. The notes are already known, the rythms can be felt. Pursue every idea. Trust your ears.”

-Walter (onoffon)

:+1:

17

I agree with the advice given to

[ul]
[li]Spend time mastering one or two boxes instead of worrying about using all your gear[/li]
[li]Don’t worry about how much gear you have unless you can’t afford it, then you should work on that debt issue by selling off devices before worrying about music.[/li]
[li]Don’t try to make finished products. Play around, hit record when something sounds cool.[/li]
[li]If you get a really unique synth patch or sound, record it so if you lose it you can at least have a reference or use it with a sampler.[/li]
[li]Take a break from all your machines once in awhile and just hum some ideas into a looper app, then try to replicate those ideas with your hardware[/li]
[/ul]

18

Create like a child. Edit like a Scientist is something a rock star friend of mine once said. He’s an Ax slinger by trade but at heart a keyboard fanatic. He uses Elektron gear and I am trying to see about him doing an artist interview. He was only in one of the 90’s biggest UK bands who sold millions! But the guy is far too humble to brag! Come on down Nick McCabe!! :wink:

19

You’ve put into words what I’ve felt for quite a while. I come from a software background. Started in Reason 1.0. Well, actually Sony Acid, come to think of it. Progressed to Ableton Live and gradually started getting a few hardware bits. Bought and sold a ton. Settled on A4, AR, Juno 106, NL2x, MS20, and Volcas, TR-8, etc…

I just finished a 10 song project that took me three years to complete. It’s not mind-blowing, but I’m happy with it. So, I’m definitely not fast or prolific, but I get to where I want to go. I’m the tortoise, not the hare.

I always envied the setups of people bouncing around the room, turning knobs and hitting buttons, switching sequences. Looked like so much fun compared to my mouse and soft-synths, tweaking every last detail. That’s what first got me looking at the Elektrons. I also work on computers all day and thought more hardware would be the ticket to bliss.

However, I have run into the same issues - saving, file-management, difficulty jumping back and forth between songs/projects, etc. Plus, I am just dead tired after work usually, so any extra hoops to jump through to get to actually progressing on my songs is a real buzzkill.

I’m still having trouble integrating hardware, but I’ll humbly share a few tips that help me.

[ul]
[li]I always write the synth patch name/# on the MIDI track name in Ableton Live. I also record an audio track below that. Sometime I’ll have multiples, each using a different synth patch - I layer a lot anyways, so it helps. So, this makes it easier to come back to a song and pick up where I left off.[/li]
[li]Worth repeating, but I record to audio all the time. Insurance. Even if I don’t save a patch, or if it’s something like the MS20 with no patch storage - record it. I also record beats and patterns. I save things in Live song files as well as export raw audio files and put them in a huge folder of self-made loops and samples for later use.[/li]
[li]Sometimes it’s convenient to just write something quickly using soft-synths. Then, go back and record audio using hardware.[/li]
[li]I never try and finish one song at a time. I always build up a folder with 15-20 songs to be paired down and honed over time. This avoids getting stuck on any one song and trying to get it “perfect.” (However, this definitely forces me to jump around between patches, kits, settings, routings, etc. Thus contributing to my frustration with hardware.)[/li]
[/ul]

It always comes down to a choice for me between wanting to use hardware to get off the computer after work VS giving up the convenience and easy project-jumping that software provides.

To this day I have no real answer or decision. I usually just use whichever approach I have energy for that day. Or a mix of both. Usually though, it’s simply recording synths to audio. I more often than not can’t be arsed to worry too much about Elektron patch/kit/pattern complexity, bla bla bla. Maybe OverBridge will change that to a degree? I can’t help but feel I still need to simplify even more though. Honestly, right now the AR is boxed up. TR-8 is way more immediate and fun, though limited obviously.

As you notice, I ramble. Hope this helps a bit, if only to impart - you are definitely not alone on these issues. I don’t think any of us come to the perfect workflow overnight. It’s a long process and hopefully a fun one, to a degree.

20

Very good topic. I also get stuck “refining” ideas and then not knowing all machines 100% I feel like I delete a pattern accidentally or my midi settings get screwed up and I have to start all over again. Being a photographer, file management and having the raw images to revert to and refine as many times as i want is just something im used to.