Interesting. I always felt the opposite. In Bitwig I’d quickly make some “utility” instrument, fx or note grid patch just because it’s so fast, easy & integrated. I never felt similar temptation for M4L
I have to sit down with some M4L docs & tutorials.
If you mean this about Live - because it’s very unclear from your post - then my main lack there is this (also, applies to Bitwig to certain extent):
… @dataflu …nice one… 
…and ur avatar name makes a great project name, too…
and oh my, when i hear doubts about the latest addition “nice drums”…
these are pure DOPE!..808 and 909 are an essential part of all electronic music dna…and bitwigs take on that fact, just NAILS it…never look for the right sample again…never get fuzzy with the real thing again…just turn them on and shape them to ur liking and personal perfect fit and need in ease…it’s coming ALL together, embedded in bw style…
and speaking of bw style…it’s core concept is what it is…hyper modular and hyper universal, once u just start to really dive in…so and therefor, a clear NO from my side to all that whishlist points according to “…whish they would open up the grid more for “real” surfaces and stuff…”
it’s as ultrasimple as it is ultracomplex right the way IT IS… u can create ANYTHING ur capable of thinking of with it…via plain and reduced to max single pure logic modules in such an unique, universal and unified gui style that it’s nothing but priceless…
and sorry to say so…but everbody who likes to complain about it, just has not really wrapped their heads around it for real yet…
and once u really do and still don’t see THE point of it ALL as one big thing, well, then as @jemmons likes to put it…it’s just not for u and u better find something else that suits u “more”…the pallette of choices is endless these days…
if u want the fuzzyness of the “real thing” that’s not real anyways…vcv is always there for U…for my part, after years of oh, this looks nice, almost real, i’m totally done with “real” surfaces simulated on screens…the computer is THE universal tool of this time…so be it…
do the real thing or get ur hands dirty in pure numbers…
…and to proof my point… …time for another little polarity moment in time…
timeless piano timbre flavours…no real thing or samples involved…just gridding a new creation that can be easily used in a way that might be even better than the real thing…
grid is already too much for many…opening it up to more gui options would be a mindkiller…it must speak in one universal visual language to really make SENSE and work… and the possebilties are literally endless…also in that way, how u can share AAAALL sorts of ur various creations with total ease and curiosity…
The good old if someone disagrees with me, then they’re stupid (and probably evil - too)
Nice one 
@antic604 Those audio editing features are definitely useful.
A lot of the time I tend to focus on playing with sound design and not spend enough time actually learning the DAW features (Bitwig and Ableton) so I don’t know how to get around or what tools are actually available to me.
I suppose the “learning” part doesn’t seem so fun but it would pay dividends in the long run. Get those keyboard shortcuts seared into my brain and be able to move faster!
I’m the opposite, unfortunately. I learn, analyze & compare the tools way too much.
Your approach is much better! 
…followed by… the good old “take it out of context”…
Everyone calm down, this stuff is supposed to be fun. I’m talking about making music but also talking on forums about making music!
…no worries…it is fun…no hurt feelings to read in…
and best is always both sides of the daw coin…discover sounddesign options AND have the daw of ur choice handling/workflow options at hand…
curiosity remains one of humans superpowers…and so is learning…
No, I didn’t.
You assume - or at least imply - that what everyone wants is a sandbox full of bits & pieces that they can arrange by themselves to create instruments, effects & MIDI devices. Like Grid, like M4L, like Reaktor, like Eurorack, etc.
And those who don’t simply have “not really wrapped their heads around it for real yet”.
News flash - not everyone want that.
and ur avatar name makes a great project name, too
It was actually Stream dataflu music | Listen to songs, albums, playlists for free on SoundCloud
And thanks
…errr, newsflash…is that not THE big plus point of bitwig…?.
u can, if u want, but u don’t have to…
many users use bitwig and have never ever touched the grid…and are totally happy that way…
i’m kinda in the middle…and absolutely not the academic approacher that wants to create their very very own instruments and what not else all within a developer sandbox sourrounding…
i write music and produce it and always use what’s at hand to get to the sonic point…while i admire bw’s approach to an open end/all options backend…
Feels to me that DAWs split into 2 groups, the more experimental focused ones (Bitwig, Ableton) and the more linear recording ones (Cubase, Studio One etc).
I think I’m OK with it. I’ve been a professional software developer for 20 years or so and I can tell you for free that if you just add every feature that the customer supposedly wants you just end up with a pile of bloated crap.
You can’t be all things to all people. The company/developers have to have some sort of unified vision for the product that they stick to otherwise design by committee just ruins it.
I actually said that in a job interview yesterday.
Good luck!
…pianoroll mutations…
Does anyone know how to place the scenes vertical instead of horizontally in the arranger clip view ?
I want the scenes to match my midi controller (Akai APC mini MK2). I also want the sound file to be visible. Like in this demo (@2:12).
I can see the scenes vertically in the mixer view. Is it possible to make the clips in the mixer view larger with visual information (like in the demo) ?
Thank you ! Totally missed that.
Experimenting with Bitwigs clip with only automation and Digitone. Every clip has its own Overbridge automation = sound. With restore automation control hotkeyed I can totaly destroy the sound and go back to the original clip (sound) or select another clip (sound) Pretty insane. Will update here later.
I believe this coming Friday marks 2 years since the launch of BitWig 5. Crazy where the time has gone
Guessing Bitwig 6 is imminent for Superbooth timing or more small incremental 5.x releases???
