Breakdance battle.
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The Behringer era
The Behra!
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It means stop
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Right.
Cheers for the clarity I guess.
Behringer responds.
I just don’t see the point, his fans will all agree anyway, and his detractors will see it for what it is.
What is wrong in that response?
What is it what Behringer does wrong? You do know they pretty much own the entire manufacturing bit of the Music hardware industry? They make and supply the parts for almost every brand out there. Be it Roland, Moog, Dave Smith, Korg, etc.
They own a lot of subsidiary companies, so it might not be clear to everyone how huge Behringer is and how and why they are able to do today what they do.
Everyone is free to to buy or not buy any Behringer gear directly, but keep in mind that no matter what new piece of music gear you buy today… chances are high it contains components out of one of Behringer´s subsidiary factories.
Like it or not. Most of these haters are hating on Behringer, because they are terrified. Terrified of the products they currently release are actually of decent quality and sound just as good as the piece of gear they have and paid a ton of money for. Not to mention the endless money pit all the old Analog gear is that needs constant maintenance and repairs.
They are angry and hate on Behringer, because they are terrified that the 2nd hand market of their precious Analog gear is going to tank big time!
They will be even more angry when Behringer comes with the inevitable Jupiter 8 and CS-80 clones. The internet will explode in fury!
Though, I think their fear is heavy overreaction. As most of this gear is so rare that they are collection pieces now more than actual instruments. I mean sure, why would the average person pay 10.000 bucks on a 2nd hand Jupiter 8, when they can buy a brand new clone for far less that sounds just as good and doesn’t require constant expensive maintenance. Bottomline is, that they wouldn’t have done it anyway.
That is the real truth behind all the hate!
Like you said in another topic. Other companies have been cloning each other for years, without a peep or reaction from anyone. That’s only because they did it in more sleezy ways, not in your face and happened in much lower volumes. So it didn’t upset the market in any way.
Especially in the Eurorack/Modular scene, everyone is copying/cloning eachother left and right for years! No one making any fuss about it.
The difference is that Behringer is a huge company and has the resources to bring it to mass market, doesn’t hide it and is completely upfront about it.
That is what these people fear and why they shown these levels of anger and hate!
The worst and most sickening of it all, is that they now also resort to attacking the people themselves, even sending death threats, who buy the Behringer synths, enjoying it, post stuff about it on Youtube and other social media.
Absolutely nuts! Seriously! 
It´s fine to have an opinion and don’t like what Behringer does. Simple! Don’t buy their products and move on. Enjoy what you have and start making music!
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This thread will really continue into eternity reiterating the same positions over and over and over…
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I agree this is nuts, if true.
For the reasons I already said, Behringer fans will agree, critics will see it as hollow. Personally I’d have more respect if he just said “Fuck the haters”.
That’s because no one has a problem with cloning gear that is long out of production and otherwise unavailable short of buying an original, but Behringer also clone in production gear, and they also steal smaller companies IP, read up on Curtis for example, now imagine that was your IP, still cool?
Also the Behringer clones are for the most part not very appealing to many “haters” for a number of reasons:
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Cloning 1980’s midi specs is not very useful, how about some CC control?
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The visual designs are often (but not always) a bit rushed and ill conceived looking, from fonts and spacing, to designs that don’t take into account flaws of the originals, like for example why make the TD-3 knobs so close together and small, why have the tuning pot the same as on the TB-303, most people that used an original would tell you these are flaws in the original design. Same for the limited pattern memories, sequencers etc. Visually most of the clones don’t look nice, but that is subjective.
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Why not bring some clones that are actually not already widely available, by contacting the original designers and coming to an agreement?
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Some people simply don’t find clones that interesting, especially when there are already numerous examples already available.
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There’s a mute thread function.
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My problem is they clone current gear (in addition to exploitive labor practices)
Please don’t equate me or my position with unacceptable fanaticism.
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Yes agree totally. There are many more markets or brands to boycott than just musical instruments that are ‘Made in China’. Underpaid workers, overworked, etc… The world has become to global and intertwined that every economy depends on each other.
and clothing!
Clones of vintage gear is fine, and actually a pretty cool ‘service’ to the contemporary musician on a budget.
But… is there anything less inspiring than names like ‘UB-Xa’ or ‘MS-101’
Try a little bit. Just a little. They actually sell their own clonemanship short of its excellence. Because, my goodness, some of these clones are scary close to the originals in sound. (Some less so)
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You mean buzz off and let us have fun? 
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Well…nooooo…just FYI
The answer is really simple. Here a snippet from the 2017 article:
Behringer’s parent company Music Group has been making chips through its Coolaudio subsidiary for 17 years, and as Uli Behringer has noted , its products have also been used by Dave Smith Instruments and Elektron to make their own gear.
“The general rule and the law clearly describe that technology is free for everyone to use, provided it is not protected,” Behringer said in defense of synth cloning earlier this month. “You may have a different personal view, but that’s how our society and every industry works – again why the law has been designed the way it is.”
So. Are you all now going to sell your Elektron and Dave Smith/Sequential gear as well? And hate on Elektron and Dave Smith? And I can bet you can add other major brands to this list as well, who buy the same components from subsidiaries like CoolAudio.
Like I said in my previous post, Behringer aka Music Group is huge and pretty much touches every part of the music industry today. No way around it.
We can like it or not what Uli says, but he is right. This is how the entire industry works. Every industry!
Patents expire and then it becomes public domain, free to use for everyone!
You can see it as a CATCH22 situation, but you should be glad that it works that way. Otherwise:
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No one but Pro musicians, Doctors and Lawyers would be able to buy good music gear today!
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You would not be able to write a single piece of music anymore today, without being Copyright claimed left and right for every note or chord you try to play!
If you think the curent Copyright claims are bad on mediums like Youtube and the many idiotic lawsuits taken place today…well… you wouldn’t be able to write and release a single piece of music anymore, unless being signed to a huge label who tells you what you are allowed to write and use within the rights this label owns. Would be fun times no?!
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Yes I know about Cool Audio chips being widely used, it is common knowledge and somewhat unavoidable, which is itself a problem.
Did you actually read my post though? Because your reply doesn’t take any of my points into account.
When it comes to your point 2. The Behringer clones are mass market, so you can’t expect the same quality as a 3000 dollar synth like OB-6 or Prophet-6 or a Moog One for that matter.
Still for the price point, the new Behringer synths are good quality and sound great! I have the Crave myself and love it. It’s well build and sounds amazing!
And they don’t make just clones. The original stuff that comes out of TC Electronics, like the Deepmind 6/12 and Neutron for example. Amazing pieces of gear at very competitive prices.
And how they took the Model D further and turned it into a massive paraphonic synth aka the Poly D is pretty cool if you ask me. People are really raving about it.
When it comes to your point 3. Uli is actually trying to contact original designers and come to an agreement. Unfortunately a lot of these designers are no longer around and their families care only about money and would demand such outrageous sums, that Behringer would not be able to release these products at affordable prices.
So the whole excuse of these families protecting their “late husband” legacy ya da ya da is just fancy speak of the truth in that they want to see 6-7 figures sums of money.
It would go completely against Uli’s philosophy as to why he is doing what he is doing. Bringing these products to the masses and make it accessible to everyone and not just an Elite few with deep pockets!
Uli has said many times, he tries to come to agreements as long as they are reasonable. In the end he is a business man and a very good one at that. He knows what he is doing.
Just look at the DevilFish guy and how he tried to make Uli look bad, by only putting a small biased part of his conversation on the internet! Uli’s response by then posting the entire conversation on the internet was classic! He got what he deserved! I wouldn’t want to do any business with such a guy either.
I mean… if you look at Behringer´s history. This is how they have always operated, since the start. Making affordable gear for the masses. Just that the quality and QC was not always there in the early years and they got a bit of a bad reputation because of it.
But they have really redeemed themselves over the years and quality has increased substantially.
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It is clear to me that you have bought into Behringer’s side, which is entirely up to you, I don’t though.
I do however agree that Robin Whittle was being unrealistic in his negotiations, but it still doesn’t mean that his design can just be taken. There are plenty of 303 mods possible aside from the Devilfish ones, why not just do those instead? These are in the public domain and freely available to find. Seems like he wants the “prestige” of Devilfish name but not able to come to an agreement, so just goes ahead anyway. The better course of action would be to come up with different mods and call it something else.
Anyway, I’m done on this topic for now.
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I’m fine with alot of the stuff Behringer does. But they also does some stuff that just rubs me the wrong way. Like that rushed 2600 teaser video they launched at Namm. It just looked like a desperate attempt to steal Korg’s “thunder”.