The Behringer era


#389

Shows what we’re dealing with when they do that as opposed just like giving them away.


#390

Pianos have been a common instrument for ages, design has not changed much, cheaper brands/luthiers have come out and yet people still desire them (the premium versions and the more affordable versions like upright pianos).


#391

Convincing softsynths & samples of 808/moog etc sounds have been around for a while now. Everyone has those sounds and it hasn’t stopped people using them. I think people want the hands on knob per function (and that little extra authenticity in the sound) and easier integration in to setups, so the hardware appeals. I can’t see it causing significantly more/less people to use those sounds? And fx/pedals etc are always a good option if anyone wants to make less common sounds.

Also, most people will still be using other gear alongside these things in any case…


#392

Fair points. They are classic sounds for sure, no disputing that, and I think it depends on how close the clones are, I do think people will get bored of them especially if used in the same old context as back in the day, I prefer samples myself for most of those sounds now. I might be wrong but I think there will be lots of secondhand RD-808 after a few months of launch, I guess time will tell.


#393

In all of this, I find it interesting that few vintage synths, with the exception of the Minimoog and TB-303, have been cloned with any regularity. We’ve had countless 303 clones in hardware over the last 20 years and Studio Electronics has been making mini clones since the late 80s or early 90s.


#394

Not a lot of regularly cloned synths, but now that I’m thinking about it, would be interesting to see a thorough list, or a table with originals at left and then clones out to the right, sorted in chronological order. How nerdy is that?

There was that ARP 2600 clone a few years back. Also wasn’t the drum-station an 808 clone?

I’d also throw in a category for software, like ReBirth, Arturia collection, Diva, etc.

Maybe vintagesynth.com already has something like this, I don’t know.


#395


#396

The Moog Model D Reissue is a reissue and out there, no need for a Model B to keep things going…and Korg already did the Odyssey…and how many 808/909 copies can the market handle still?

But I do see your point also, if there’s a piece that’s been forgotten / so rare that it is basically close to gear “extinction” a clone might make sense in more ways than just an economical one.


#397

I must admit, I didn’t wanna like your post…but I so did :slight_smile:


#398

I’m getting the RD-808 because it has Song Mode and the Model:Samples doesn’t…:kissing_heart:


#399

Moog Model D reissue that’s not produced anymore? for more than 3000$. Yeah, there’s a need for the Boog for sure.
Korg oddysey with a small keys for almost twice as much as BARP? No thanks.

I’m looking for a good affordable copy of 808 for a long time.
Will be getting the BOB for sure. At half the price of other options and coming with good features.


#400

I think someone said it further up: if we treat the copy cats like pharma generica, then yes you can find something heroic and necessary in a Boog or an also-ran for 200€ cheaper that suits slightly bigger hands (‘cause why pay for an FS right?)

To me, in most cases though it seems more like buying a bootlegged T-shirt or “LV” bag off the street and feeling righteous about it.

I understand that 3000$ for a Moog Model D is a lot (/too much…I think so too, for example), but hey, that’s what they cost. It’s an iconic design by an iconic company. Where’s this entitlement coming from, that any of that IP should be had for 300$? And then the pride in that also, where’s that coming from? (Not you specifically but reading through these comments) There’s nothing Robin Hood-y in selling or buying “BRADA” shirts off the street corner. And if we pretend that that shirt is of the same quality and refinement as the real thing, “ie the same but 90%” cheaper”, we most likely are kidding ourselves.


#401

I just think there is hyperproduction in all fields, trying to make more and cheeper items in inhumann invariments is going to cost as a lot at its end.
This cheep products are not made for poor people, they are made for everyone, this companis depend on western cunsumer, becous he has money to spend, he will now buy 5 items instead of 1 like he use to.


#402

This all seems fairly straightforward to me. There is probably some risk that cheaper electronic goods might be lower in quality and not last as long, but that’s a calculated risk that people can take if they want. Easy to get extended warranties etc these days if you’re worried. If you think the sound is good to your own ears then that’s a good enough reason, no need to prove anything to others. And lastly, if you’re happy to live with the issue of the working conditions of those who built your toys then that’s your choice. I get terrible middle class guilt about that sort of thing but I rely on technology to do my job, and I like it for my hobbies, so I play my part in capitalism. I try to buy ethically and make choices that do less damage but it’s very difficult because we’re all misinformed and misled a lot of the time. I have no idea who made the components inside my microwave or what they were paid. I doubt I’d be able to find out even if I tried.

If you want to get a cheap synth and still do something positive, try to find a charity that works towards better rights for Chinese workers and give them some of the money you’ve saved. That’s probably the best you’ll be able to do.

For me personally, I’m tempted by this cheap gear from Behringer but I wouldn’t trust the quality based on past experience of cheap electronics. Broadly speaking I think it’s true that you get what you pay for. Not always, but it’s a good rule of thumb. If I can’t afford something, then I’ll either use credit or save up. Most people here don’t “need” synths. Let’s not kid ourselves!


#403

Facts are that these things aren’t legally protected (unlike fake clothing etc) due to lack of uniqueness themselves or being old enough to be out of patent, and they’re mostly not in production or at a hefty price tag. Behringer got to a position where they could build these things to an acceptable standard (in many people’s optinion) without breaking any laws and whilst providing a lot of jobs, and create their own manufacturing process so as to be able to sell them at a very low price to people that would never have bought the alternatives.

You can come at it from a bunch of angles depending on one’s own circumstances and how many layers of the onion you wanna peel in to and which take you have as ‘the greater good’.

Pretty sure that no one ‘pro’ is going to persuade anyone that’s ‘against’, and vice versa (without some solid links to articles confirming terrible working conditions etc or terrible build quality in the new stuff?) so it’s a pretty futile conversation really…


#404

It’s coming from the law. Patents expire and it’s a good thing. If they didn’t we’d need to pay a lot more for a lot of things, not just synths.


#405

Yep I agree, patent expiration makes sense. Let someone have their shot at making dough and advancing further on their original thought with protection from competition. If by the time the patent expires they haven’t developed things to a new stage, or figured out how to make things at a decent price so as to keep competition away, then let someone else have a shot. It’s like delayed open source. Obviously there’ll be cases where the above doesn’t work out ideal for some people but overall I think it’s healthy and probably better for the global community and progression? Never really thought about it deeply before though so I could probably be proven totally wrong!


#406

I don’t understand why synthesizers are treated as something sacred. We only have to look to guitar (pedal) design to see how ok it is to copy designs. That’s why there is a maximum amount of years you can hold on to an IP. Otherwise there would be no innovation.

I’m still surprised that apparently synths somehow should be an exception to the rule.

To each their own opinion of course. To me it’s great that there is an expiring date to an ip. We wouldn’t be where we are now without it.


#407

I dont think anyone should be feeling righteous about buying any synth. These are instruments for making music, not status meters.


#408

I got to around post 50 and said forget it.
I would love a crave tbh but it just seems like this company is too shady for me.

Meh, whatever…