The Behringer era


#269

So anything made in China is a no-go? You are not going to be using many instruments (or electronics in general) with that policy. Moog, Elektron, essentially everyone uses chinese components.


#270

Plenty of other routes in this business. Which is why the idea of Behringer disrupting the game in this way is so upsetting.

Components are something else entirely. They don’t exist in other places.

But if that’s your reasoning for defeat that’s your choice. I don’t agree with it.


#271

If you want to avoid any business that exploit workforces or have questionable ethics you are seriously limited in what tech you use, clothes you wear, car you drive and food you eat.

Of course you can live an almost guilt free life but I doubt majority of us do


#272

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#273

And be prepared to pay a bit more, and try to be aware how price dictates these issues.

Re-distribution of wealth depends on everyone demanding better and by voting with our wallets.

Unfortunately human greed seems universal no matter how uncomfortable it makes us feel, it is largely true, we all like cheap things because it means less work for us to afford them.

Consumerism is a big problem but also ironically part of the solution if consumers try to look past the price tag, things like environmental impact, worker conditions and also less obvious things like the impact on less developed countries if suddenly companies that had operations there deemed it no longer profitable.

I think a great idea would be a flexible pricing model, consisting of bare product cost for company to make profit and pay fair wage, then a voluntary discretionary payment that goes directly to the workers via an independent means so that you could be sure it wasn’t being skimmed. The discretionary payment would be like a tip you’d give at a restaurant.


#274

Ok, @lemons and @xidnpnlss please cool down, after my message any agressive post will go to trash and you’ll be silenced for a couple of days.
Don’t feed the troll for music sake.


#275

No its not. I support fair commodities exchange too. Again, I’m not always perfect. I do what I can. It’s no reason to just go e up imo.

I could give two shits about Behringer specifically. Any company indulging in these practices I try not to support.

Fortunately there are a lot of other options in synthdom.


#276

I am only stating my position calmly. I have not once resorted to aggression or pejoratives.


#277

Indeed. You did good. And not used the word “you” many times, sign that the conversation was staying somehow open.

I feel like you guys said everything you had to say on the subject.
You might both consider dropping your public private conversation at this state :tongue:


#278

The States use prison labour in some manufacturing. Guess it depends on your viewpoint whether that is acceptable or not.

Must countries will have an element of horrendous working conditions in some industry or other. Doesn’t make it right of course but I do think China gets a disproportionate amount of grief from westerners. I’d wager much of that is down to controlling the message of what we see and hear in the media. Ie. It may be in Western governments interests to portray China in this way (much like how UK/US portray Putin and Russia to shape their agendas).


#279

Good convo. I’ll return. My partner is coming home from a long trip and if they see the place as it is and find I’ve been duking it out with yall over synths all week then you’ll see the definition of poor treatment.


#280

:rofl:

Very same here !


#281

Whaaat? You have to be kidding. Are you talking about Putin the KGB agent, comrade of all dictators?Russia that takes a piece of another country as they want?
Too much Russian propaganda. But that’s another topic.


#282

It Def is one for another day :joy:


#283

A couple of observations from someone who did marketing for a large international company-

  1. The shift down market, by numerous music gear manufacturers, is a clear signal there is an unserved market. Now why is this? Is this due to a change in economic factors? Is this due to the collector’s market driving used equipment ever upward?

  2. With regards to market share, I do not see B as a threat to Moog unless Moog decide to actively compete in the entry level market. Unless Moog management have lost their minds, I can’t see them doing that with their history and brand recognition. They are top shelf. I try to imagine a Ferrari buyer agonizing over whether to buy a Hyundai instead of the new Ferrari. It isn’t even a consideration.

  3. Moog, Waldorf and DSI recently released flagship synths that took a substantial shift upmarket.


#284

I don’t judge people who buy Behringer gear, but I choose not to buy Behringer myself.

However the justification that “everything is made in China” is a hollow argument, and really even only fails to address one of the many other reasons why people choose not to buy Behringer.

The argument that somehow those who choose not to buy Behringer are “elitists” “worried collectors” or “against affordable synths” just demonstrates a lack of critical thinking, and seems like a lazy justification and possibly a guilty conscience.

The defending of Behringer is to me an indication that those people doing so are very gullible believing the whole “we just want to bring affordable classics for everyone” bullshit, either that or they are aware it is BS and turning a blind eye to it for reasons of entitlement.

I actually have more respect for Behringer customers who know all the facts and say simply that they don’t care, because at least they have thought about it and are being honest.

But whatever your reasons for buying Behringer I don’t care, all I care about is that I don’t have to.


#285

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#286

I see where you’re coming from but disagree on principle, just seems like an easy way out. Nobody should have to depend on random acts of generosity to scrape a living just so companies can increase their profit margins. It’s wild to me that American restaurants can get away with paying their servers $2/hr or something because they’re expected to make up the difference in tips.


#287

In one hand, I have never felt like I needed a Behringer in my life… Maybe Neutron for a moment, but if faded away.

On the other hand Uli is pretty active on the Internet, and knows his market pretty well from this. Such fact puts him far from a pure evil capitalist firm in my mind. Like he doesn’t only look for profit (like in Nike example above). IMO he may very be also realizing an old dream, as he was saying when introducing the Deepmind.

I am still waiting for some truly innovative box with the knowledge Behringer/Midas/TC Electronics have gathered.
But I don’t forget that I owe Korg and especially Tatsuya an eternal debt for helping me set a foot in electronic music field.
Today, it might have been Behringer.


#288

The distinction that I make here though is that the company will pair a fair wage, not a bare minimum wage.

Edit: I fully agree that the practice of reliance on tips to facilitate paying crap wages is disgusting and I’d never eat in such a place.